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Torres Question


honourablegeorge

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Makes too much commercially to justify a sale is the bottom line.

 

Utd moved on Beckham for a pittance of his earning potential and against his wishes because Ferguson didn't want the circus, cant see Torres going unless he engineers it himself by announcing he's not signing a new deal in 12-18 months

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Makes too much commercially to justify a sale is the bottom line.

 

Utd moved on Beckham for a pittance of his earning potential and against his wishes because Ferguson didn't want the circus, cant see Torres going unless he engineers it himself by announcing he's not signing a new deal in 12-18 months

 

which is likely

 

but all this is fine, collect good young players etc etc

 

where are the superstars? if we sell Torres we need to replace like for like and use the additional funds to surround him with a player of the same proven potential, not re-invest the money in 4 players

otherwise we'll just get more of the same (as we've had in the last 20 years)

 

Torres is the only superstar we have bought in modern times and hey presto....it works

 

needs to be a bit of both or we'll still be trying to make the CL in 2015 let alone challenging for the PL

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Torres is the only superstar we have bought in modern times and hey presto....it works

 

 

Tunnel vision there. We've spent similar money on a few players and depending who you view if they were successful or not, some worked and some didnt.

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which is likely

 

but all this is fine, collect good young players etc etc

 

where are the superstars? if we sell Torres we need to replace like for like and use the additional funds to surround him with a player of the same proven potential, not re-invest the money in 4 players

otherwise we'll just get more of the same (as we've had in the last 20 years)

 

Torres is the only superstar we have bought in modern times and hey presto....it works

 

needs to be a bit of both or we'll still be trying to make the CL in 2015 let alone challenging for the PL

 

Bang on

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If he was rarely injured, there would be no question of this. But that isn't the case. At the moment though, there's a bit of a dearth of young, work-class centre forwards. Llorente might be one, but looks Madrid-bound. Plus we'd need to add, class and pace out wide to accommodate him. Maybe we'd have the money to do that.

 

One of the principles of the Moneyball ethos is that if a player's saleable value is significantly above his actual current value, then you should look to sell. A lot depends on the medical outlook and also on Torres' happiness here. This could be a close one for NESV.

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Tunnel vision there. We've spent similar money on a few players and depending who you view if they were successful or not, some worked and some didnt.

 

so apart from the fact that we have spent nowhere near the same amount of money on players and that those in the bracket below Torres were not of the calibre that he was when he arrived.....what? exactly? should we be signing Big NaMez or not?

 

your demeanour says no

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If he was rarely injured, there would be no question of this. But that isn't the case. At the moment though, there's a bit of a dearth of young, work-class centre forwards. Llorente might be one, but looks Madrid-bound. Plus we'd need to add, class and pace out wide to accommodate him. Maybe we'd have the money to do that.

 

One of the principles of the Moneyball ethos is that if a player's saleable value is significantly above his actual current value, then you should look to sell. A lot depends on the medical outlook and also on Torres' happiness here. This could be a close one for NESV.

 

Minimum £5m to £10m a year off pitch 'profit' says otherwise

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Eh? He is a superstar now but he was no more of a superstar when we bought him than many other players bought in the last 20 years some of who have worked, some of whom haven't.

 

who are you comparing him to?

 

name one 'marquee signing' that was comparable

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Eh? He is a superstar now but he was no more of a superstar when we bought him than many other players bought in the last 20 years some of who have worked, some of whom haven't.

 

not so. only player that comes close to him is collymore.

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so apart from the fact that we have spent nowhere near the same amount of money on players and that those in the bracket below Torres were not of the calibre that he was when he arrived.....what? exactly? should we be signing Big NaMez or not?

 

your demeanour says no

 

Think your overestimating Torres' clout before Benitez got hold of him tbh. He wasnt the ready made superstar you are alluding too. Yes, he was a good player, but he was nowhere near as prolific as he has been in a Liverpool shirt. It was a big gamble at the time, no more so than those of Keane and Aquilani who arrived for similar fees in recent times.

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Where do these numbers come from?

Educated guess based on Madrid's commercial income against our own and the numbers they say their players bring in

 

Beckham earned Madrid iro of £25m a season, mainly shirts, back then. Ronaldo makes them more. Torres is number three shirt seller in world football behind them (think he may have taken two spot now). He's huge leverage on all things commercial for us, the most important player.

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Mark Wright, Paul Ince, Harry Kewell, Fernando Morientes, Robbie Keane, Alberto Aqualani, Joe Cole etc.

 

no

 

Torres had arrived on the world stage and his star was on the rise

 

he'd played in the 2006 WC and done well enough to suggest in his performances and his style of play, that he could kick on in our league

 

other than Ronaldo, I'm struggling to think of recent signings that were more marquee than Torres by anyone, even RM or Barca

 

maybe Villa , as he is established now

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no

 

Torres had arrived on the world stage and his star was on the rise

 

he'd played in the 2006 WC and done well enough to suggest in his performances and his style of play, that he could kick on in our league

 

other than Ronaldo, I'm struggling to think of recent signings that were more marquee than Torres by anyone, even RM or Barca

 

maybe Villa , as he is established now

I'm sorry but thats just nonsense.

 

exactly...none of them.

What's the criteria then?

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Think your overestimating Torres' clout before Benitez got hold of him tbh. He wasnt the ready made superstar you are alluding too. Yes, he was a good player, but he was nowhere near as prolific as he has been in a Liverpool shirt. It was a big gamble at the time, no more so than those of Keane and Aquilani who arrived for similar fees in recent times.

 

you and fred are actually thinking about his latter days at atletico.

he was THE young star of spanish and indeed european football. we timed our run well, ferguson had been trying to buy him for a long time.

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no

 

Torres had arrived on the world stage and his star was on the rise

 

he'd played in the 2006 WC and done well enough to suggest in his performances and his style of play, that he could kick on in our league

 

other than Ronaldo, I'm struggling to think of recent signings that were more marquee than Torres by anyone, even RM or Barca

 

maybe Villa , as he is established now

 

don't agree, there was nothing 'marquee' about torres. he was potential but still a gamble and signed from the spanish equivalent of everton. he didn't sell merchandise outside of atleti fans, he'd broken into the spain team but was far from being a superstar. he was a hell of a spot from the scouts / manager at the time but was still a gamble given what we paid for him.

 

he was THE young star of spanish and indeed european football. we timed our run well, ferguson had been trying to buy him for a long time.

well yeah, he was young and potential, nothing marquee about him. marquee means shifting loads of shirts and merchandise and guaranteed to have a big impact on your marketing bottom line. torres certainly wasn't that.

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Where do these numbers come from?

I'd be interested in that too. Some quick figures:

 

cost of making a shirt: £5.00

overheads/ distribution: £3.00

average sale price worldwide: £35.00

adidas slice: £10.00

average retailer slice: £8.00

= LFC profit: £10.00

 

£5,000,000/£10 = 500,000 shirts sold solely because of Torres, none of which are replaced by whoever replaces him. It seems a bit of a stretch. It also assumes that with his declining output (which of course may change) + less exposure (no CL) that his shirts continue to sell at the same rate, this may easily have peaked and be declining.

 

Of course, my guestimates on figures above may be wildly out. But forgive my scepticism on the 'Minimum £5m to £10m a year off pitch 'profit' says otherwise.' None of which would be replaceable with the transfer money used in whatever way.

 

Does anyone have a better idea on what the per shirt profitability of merchandise sales to the club is? I also acknowledge that off-pitch profit is almost certainly derived from other revenues too, but I imagine that shirt sales forms the bulk of it.

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you and fred are actually thinking about his latter days at atletico.

he was THE young star of spanish and indeed european football. we timed our run well, ferguson had been trying to buy him for a long time.

Real Madrid had been after Alonso when we bought him, Utd/Arsenal were after Kewell when we bought him. I don't get what makes the Torres signing so remarkable.

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