Guardian piece by Tom Henry

[Siang]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2199626,00.html

 

We are doom, i tell ya!! We are doom!!!

[liverbird04]

The media looking for a new manager to sack

[Guest Kaizer]

For the more lazy ones.

 

Liverpool tell Benítez league title is a must

Paul Kelso

Friday October 26, 2007

The Guardian

 

Liverpool's manager, Rafael Benítez, will have to guide his team to the Premier League title to justify the £40m the club invested in new players in the summer, according to the club's co-owner Tom Hicks. Speaking 24 hours after Liverpool's prospects of qualifying for the knock-out stage of the Champions League were severely dented by a 2-1 defeat by Besiktas in Turkey, Hicks said the domestic trophy remained the club's priority. Benítez based his pre-season approach to the American owners of the club on a challenge for the Premier League title, impressing on them the need for more strength in depth if he were to mount a credible challenge to Manchester United and Chelsea.

 

Hicks and George Gillett acceded to his wishes, investing £26.5m in Fernando Torres and £11.5m on the Ajax winger Ryan Babel. Hicks pledged his support for a coach who has often seemed more at home in European competition than the domestic fray. But in comments that will increase the pressure on Benítez to deliver a title the club have not won for 17 years Hicks implied he and Gillett are expecting a swift return on their investment.

"One of the reasons we made the signings we did in the summer was to create the depth we now have. Rafa explained to George and me that is how you win the Prem, because you have to play every team twice," Hicks said. "We totally support Rafa, nobody wants to win more than Rafa. But I know when we committed the resources for signings in the summer the whole idea was to have a team that could compete for the Premier League. We've not had the depth previously to do that.

 

"This squad is good enough to win things. It should be winning things. If it doesn't we'll have to look at the circumstances and have a meeting at the end of the year to understand what happened. I don't want to predict failure, I want to predict success."

 

Benítez demanded extensive investment from Liverpool's new owners after May's defeat by Milan in the European Cup final, a second final appearance in three seasons that he claimed represented an over-achievement for the squad at his disposal. The Liverpool manager said dithering in the transfer market had cost the club major targets in recent seasons - including Daniel Alves at Seville, the former Benfica captain Simão Sabrosa and Florent Malouda this summer - and it was against this backdrop, plus an implied threat from the Spaniard that he would consider his future if finances were not forthcoming, that the Americans eventually acted.

 

Liverpool's struggles in Europe this season contrast with their success in winning the tournament in 2005 and reaching last year's final but Hicks acknowledged that the supporters crave the Premier League title.

 

"Our fans, I can tell from just talking to them, want to win the Premier League. They haven't won the top title in 17 years and I know their passions really are that they want to win the Premier League.

 

Hicks remains confident that Liverpool can qualify for the Champions League knockout round but said failure would not impact on current attempts to refinance the club. The Americans personally guaranteed a loan of £298m from the Royal Bank of Scotland to buy the club but a recent attempt to refinance the loan collapsed. Hicks said he was close to agreeing a deal and Champions League failure would not impact on negotiations.

 

"The package will be completed within 30 days, but I don't want to comment any further on the details," he said. "In terms of budgeting we've got it covered either way, and we've got our work cut out [to qualify]. If we didn't qualify, it would be terribly disappointing but I'm an optimist and I think we're going to win our next two at home and then we have a big match in Marseille. I think we can get out of the group," he said.

 

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,,2199607,00.html

Edited October 26, 2007 by Kaizer

[mooks]

Liverpool tell Benítez league title is a must

At least they spell his name right.

 

If you're going to shamelessly misquote people then you can make up for it by using the appropriate accent. Or something.

[Cunny]

can somebody copy and paste the Andy Hunter piece on The Guardian website today. It's in the sportsblogs section which is firewalled at work.

cheers.

[Guest Kaizer]

Benítez reaches for comfort blanket of statistics but fails to cover up Anfield ills

There are shades of Gérard Houllier in Rafa Benítez's excuses but the problems at Liverpool run deep.

Andy Hunter

October 26, 2007 1:01 AM

Excuses and convenient statistics increased as Gérard Houllier's success declined at Anfield and, in a week of fierce self-examination at Liverpool, it has been alarming to hear Rafael Benítez employ similar tactics in defence of under-achievement. It is a strategy unlikely to find favour with the club's American owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, and a revival of recent Liverpool history that supporters would rather forget.

 

Autumn is often a season for inquests at Liverpool and this year is proving no exception, with the side on the brink of a Champions League exit after defeat by Besiktas sent them to the Group A basement on Wednesday night. An unbeaten start in the Premier League provides Benítez with protection from talk of a crisis and the visit of Arsenal on Sunday offers the chance for instant redemption, although it is an opportunity Liverpool will struggle to grasp without an impressive reaction at Anfield.

 

Before departing for Istanbul Benítez dismissed concerns about the previous weekend's unconvincing display from his team - a valuable victory over Everton where controversy masked the performance level - and the theory that a repeat in the cauldron of the Inonu Stadium would invite danger. "Look at the game again," he said. "Everton had one shot on target and six off, while we got 19 shots away. We did a lot of good things."

 

Yet the result in Turkey confirmed the pre-match suspicions and the Houllier impersonation continued. "It is difficult to explain when you have 28 attempts away from home and you cannot win" was Benitez's opening line at the post- match inquest. There was a temptation to check the diary to confirm a change of manager and that three years of expensive squad enhancement had actually taken place.

 

Liverpool are doing their damnedest in the Champions League to accelerate pre-season claims that the Premier League title is their priority and that is a troublesome path, especially when Arsenal and Manchester United have struck form in a division where the margin for error has diminished in recent years.

 

This season concentrating on one major trophy before Christmas was deemed unacceptable for such an impressive squad, a view expressed by Benítez when his demands for top-dollar imports in the wake of the European Cup final defeat by Milan yielded the £26.5m Fernando Torres and no doubt shared by Hicks and Gillett, who signed the cheques. Yet without three victories from their remaining three group games in the Champions League, it is likely to be Liverpool's reality again.

 

The European glory which captivated Gillett and Hicks at the time of their take-over has provided a safety net for Benítez against criticism for failing to make domestic inroads. Without that the Premier League title would take on even greater importance to a club run by Americans seeking tangible returns on an investment which started at £430m but will inflate in line with the rising cost of funding the new stadium in Stanley Park.

 

Yet dramatic recoveries are a Benítez forte and it would be remiss to dismiss the possibility of another, particularly when so many of the problems afflicting Liverpool can be rectified from within. One legitimate excuse open to the Spaniard, but which he has not presented in public so far, is that the spine of his team which can move the ball with pace, accuracy and purpose - attributes sorely lacking against Besiktas - has been lost to injury. Daniel Agger, Xabi Alonso and Torres have been sorely missed and in the meantime Sami Hyypia, Javier Mascherano, Mohamed Sissoko and the usually consistent Steve Finnan have struggled badly.

 

There has been a notable dip throughout the team since a hapless Derby County were demolished at Anfield eight weeks ago. Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher have not delivered their inspiring leadership since fracturing a toe and ribs respectively in August, although both hinted at an upturn in Turkey, and the lack of an outstanding wide man continues to hinder a squad seriously short of options on the left. This is one weakness currently beyond Benítez, who has sought and failed to address the deficiency in each of his four summers at the club. Others are of the manager's own making.

 

Resting Torres against Portsmouth and Birmingham, not rotation, disrupted Liverpool's momentum when their season was gathering pace. Benítez's aversion to deploying Peter Crouch has also had a detrimental effect, particularly in Istanbul where it was not until the 83rd minute that he added necessary potency to the creative but hardly clinical forward line of Dirk Kuyt and Andriy Voronin. Alonso too, it should be noted, was fit to face Besiktas yet was left on the bench as Liverpool's distribution veered between disappointing and dire on Wednesday.

 

"I don't know what has gone wrong," said the goalkeeper, Jose Reina, yesterday. "We are not in an easy group and it is difficult in Besiktas. We were not right in front of goal and that was the story of the game. We conceded two goals from four shots on target. We could score only one from 10. What can I say?"

 

That fate is not entirely to blame for Liverpool's predicament would be a start.

 

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/10/...comfort_bl.html

Edited October 26, 2007 by Kaizer

[Coyler]

When's the club imploding?

[The walters step over]

When's the club imploding?

 

I have it down for about 6 o'clock Sunday afternoon.

[cymrococh]

When's the club imploding?

16th of feb 2008.

[matty]

08/08/08

[owenthomas]

One legitimate excuse open to the Spaniard, but which he has not presented in public so far, is that the spine of his team which can move the ball with pace, accuracy and purpose - attributes sorely lacking against Besiktas - has been lost to injury. Daniel Agger, Xabi Alonso and Torres have been sorely missed and in the meantime Sami Hyypia, Javier Mascherano, Mohamed Sissoko and the usually consistent Steve Finnan have struggled badly.

this is a point i haven't seen made in the media previously but it's the big thing for me.. Agger, Alonso and Torres are not just squad players, they're imperative to how (i beleive) Rafa wants us to play..

 

all these posts and articles about having a big squad that should be able to cope with missing certain players is all well and good - but we're not talking any old players here.. these three are (arguably) our best three in each of their positions at moving the ball about and being controlled in possession.. you don't get another, say, Agger sitting on the bench waiting for his chance to come in and do a job - a player of that ability should rightly expect to be first choice and there'd be no shortage of clubs offering a player of his calibre the offer of a starting place should he not be getting it elsewhere.. same for the other two i've mentioned.. i mean, take Toure, Fabregas and Adeybayor out of Arsenal's side.. Vidic, Ronaldo & Rooney from the Mancs.. Terry, Lampard & Drogba from Chelsea - you'd see a stutter there too..

 

on top of this you've got other players not playing up to their usual standard - Finnan, Carra, Hyypia, Riise, Mascherano, Gerrard, Sissoko, Pennant, Kuyt, Voronin: all these players have shown better, more consistent form than they're currently showing (or in some cases have shown for months!).. so it doesn't take a genius to work out why things aren't going well..

 

you could also add to this the current lack of confidence throughout, the loss of Pako, the rumblings of discontent from the likes of Crouch, the media's obsession with rotation and now the fans despair at it all and it doesn't make for a happy ship..

 

and yet, win on Sunday + our game in hand and we're a point behind the Mancs who, i think most would agree (through gritted teeth), are the team to finish above, despite Arsenal's fantastic start and current form.. in Europe it's not unreasonable to think that we can win our remaining three games and get out of the group..

 

yes there's a lack of confidence and the team aren't playing well but the last thing we need to be doing (or have done in few cases) is throwing the towel in.. get behind the lads just as much, if not more, during the rocky spells and the good times will appear back quicker.. all this slagging off of players and the manager isn't going to help.. some of the rubbish posted here the last few days is a disgrace and i hope it comes back to bite you on the a***.. get a grip and start supporting the team for f*** sake..

[growler]

if rafa meant what he said after that game; that we played well, then I am not too impressed. not gonna say sack him of course, leave that for the new fans.

 

rafa has always been honest in the past. 'we played poor' etc. I hope this is a detour from that and a way of building confidence.

[Dan]

if rafa meant what he said after that game; that we played well, then I am not too impressed. not gonna say sack him of course, leave that for the new fans.

 

rafa has always been honest in the past. 'we played poor' etc. I hope this is a detour from that and a way of building confidence.

 

Not sure about that.

[Poolfrog]

this is a point i haven't seen made in the media previously but it's the big thing for me.. Agger, Alonso and Torres are not just squad players, they're imperative to how (i beleive) Rafa wants us to play..

 

all these posts and articles about having a big squad that should be able to cope with missing certain players is all well and good - but we're not talking any old players here.. these three are (arguably) our best three in each of their positions at moving the ball about and being controlled in possession.. you don't get another, say, Agger sitting on the bench waiting for his chance to come in and do a job - a player of that ability should rightly expect to be first choice and there'd be no shortage of clubs offering a player of his calibre the offer of a starting place should he not be getting it elsewhere.. same for the other two i've mentioned.. i mean, take Toure, Fabregas and Adeybayor out of Arsenal's side.. Vidic, Ronaldo & Rooney from the Mancs.. Terry, Lampard & Drogba from Chelsea - you'd see a stutter there too..

 

on top of this you've got other players not playing up to their usual standard - Finnan, Carra, Hyypia, Riise, Mascherano, Gerrard, Sissoko, Pennant, Kuyt, Voronin: all these players have shown better, more consistent form than they're currently showing (or in some cases have shown for months!).. so it doesn't take a genius to work out why things aren't going well..

 

you could also add to this the current lack of confidence throughout, the loss of Pako, the rumblings of discontent from the likes of Crouch, the media's obsession with rotation and now the fans despair at it all and it doesn't make for a happy ship..

 

and yet, win on Sunday + our game in hand and we're a point behind the Mancs who, i think most would agree (through gritted teeth), are the team to finish above, despite Arsenal's fantastic start and current form.. in Europe it's not unreasonable to think that we can win our remaining three games and get out of the group..

 

yes there's a lack of confidence and the team aren't playing well but the last thing we need to be doing (or have done in few cases) is throwing the towel in.. get behind the lads just as much, if not more, during the rocky spells and the good times will appear back quicker.. all this slagging off of players and the manager isn't going to help.. some of the rubbish posted here the last few days is a disgrace and i hope it comes back to bite you on the a***.. get a grip and start supporting the team for f*** sake..

This is the first sensible post I've read on this thread. As you say, the rubbish that's been posted is a disgrace - and the same whingers will be the first to say they always knew Rafa was the man to take us forward if we win something. It's hardly worth coming on here most days. If I want stupid analysis and knee-jerk reactions I'll watch Andy Gray on Sky

[John am Rhein]

Houllier was a good manager and so is Benitez

[johngibo YPC]

This is the first sensible post I've read on this thread. As you say, the rubbish that's been posted is a disgrace - and the same whingers will be the first to say they always knew Rafa was the man to take us forward if we win something. It's hardly worth coming on here most days. If I want stupid analysis and knee-jerk reactions I'll watch Andy Gray on Sky

 

He's great Owen isn't he

He should have got Bascombes job

[AE]

this is a point i haven't seen made in the media previously but it's the big thing for me.. Agger, Alonso and Torres are not just squad players, they're imperative to how (i beleive) Rafa wants us to play..

 

all these posts and articles about having a big squad that should be able to cope with missing certain players is all well and good - but we're not talking any old players here.. these three are (arguably) our best three in each of their positions at moving the ball about and being controlled in possession.. you don't get another, say, Agger sitting on the bench waiting for his chance to come in and do a job - a player of that ability should rightly expect to be first choice and there'd be no shortage of clubs offering a player of his calibre the offer of a starting place should he not be getting it elsewhere.. same for the other two i've mentioned.. i mean, take Toure, Fabregas and Adeybayor out of Arsenal's side.. Vidic, Ronaldo & Rooney from the Mancs.. Terry, Lampard & Drogba from Chelsea - you'd see a stutter there too..

 

on top of this you've got other players not playing up to their usual standard - Finnan, Carra, Hyypia, Riise, Mascherano, Gerrard, Sissoko, Pennant, Kuyt, Voronin: all these players have shown better, more consistent form than they're currently showing (or in some cases have shown for months!).. so it doesn't take a genius to work out why things aren't going well..

 

you could also add to this the current lack of confidence throughout, the loss of Pako, the rumblings of discontent from the likes of Crouch, the media's obsession with rotation and now the fans despair at it all and it doesn't make for a happy ship..

 

and yet, win on Sunday + our game in hand and we're a point behind the Mancs who, i think most would agree (through gritted teeth), are the team to finish above, despite Arsenal's fantastic start and current form.. in Europe it's not unreasonable to think that we can win our remaining three games and get out of the group..

 

yes there's a lack of confidence and the team aren't playing well but the last thing we need to be doing (or have done in few cases) is throwing the towel in.. get behind the lads just as much, if not more, during the rocky spells and the good times will appear back quicker.. all this slagging off of players and the manager isn't going to help.. some of the rubbish posted here the last few days is a disgrace and i hope it comes back to bite you on the a***.. get a grip and start supporting the team for f*** sake..

 

Spot on that.

That has been my view for a while, but as I don't want Rafa sacked I haven't been able to post on here

[Molby]

This is the first sensible post I've read on this thread. As you say, the rubbish that's been posted is a disgrace - and the same whingers will be the first to say they always knew Rafa was the man to take us forward if we win something. It's hardly worth coming on here most days. If I want stupid analysis and knee-jerk reactions I'll watch Andy Gray on Sky

 

 

ah, well you should read my posts

 

they offer both support for Rafa, fascinating technical insights in to where we are going wrong and easy-to-implement tactical solutions that will get us back on track in no time