Negativity

[Leo No.8]

Rafa has got us set up so negatively away from home, its costing us terribly.

 

You see teams like Reading come to Anfield and play the way we are away from home, not just against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, but even at places like Bolton and Everton. Being very cautious in the build up, not committing many players forward from midfield and full-back, whilst passing the ball extremely cautiously. You usually find a similar pattern develops - if the cautious team concedes a goal, they struggle to turn things around and eventually go on to concede again when chasing the game. That's what we look like against the top sides, someone like Portsmouth who is hoping for a point if they are really lucky.

 

The way Alonso is being deployed, we really should have taken Madrid's money, invested it in the team and kept hold of Hamann for a couple more years. He's playing exactly the same role, sitting practically on top of the defence and passing the ball sideways and backwards to the full-backs, its a terrible waste of a player of his ability who can unlock defences the way he can when at his best. We need his involvement higher up the pitch, and whether it is the player himself or down to instructions I feel his contribution is very, very limited indeed at the moment; the centre-halves can step up and do what he's doing.

 

Sissoko being injured was of course a big blow, but up to now we have been relatively lucky with injuries. Zenden as cover simply isn't good enough, in all honesty he doesn't look even close. You look at him and with Alonso playing so deep, then one of the still very raw Gonzalez and Pennant who still has to prove himself, and what you find is its all down to Gerrard. It used to wind me up when people called us a one man team, but when you looked at our midfield today it was going to be Gerrard to do something or no-one. As it was he wasn't at the races, but its a worrying state of affairs when we are looking to just one man to come up with the goods, because if he has an off day we look desperately short of ideas.

 

Its so frustrating, last season the midfield looked great and we were desperately short of decent strikers; now Kuyt comes in who looks absolutely top class, Crouch finds his scoring touch and the midfield starts to look shaky again. Its like with golf, every time you sort your putting out, your driving goes crap, you sort out your driving and you can't hit your irons. Kuyt looks so sharp, you just feel any kind of decent service and he'll score goals. He links up with others so well also, but time and again there weren't any willing runners when he controlled, turned and made a yard for himself.

 

When you look around the team, I still feel we don't have enough players in midfield who can carry the ball positively. The truth is we are missing the much-maligned Harry Kewell. When he was in the side, he provided balance on the left, and another outlet - a player to whom you could pass the ball out wide, and usually his first move would be to run forward with the ball. At present there isn't anyone except Gerrard taking responsibility for making something happen when we play away from home - worryingly no-one else looks capable. Teams know if they strangle our right side, we're not going to get behind them full stop.

 

Another serious problem is when you play to hold the opposition and little more, making defensive errors is going to kill you, and that has been the case this season. We've been terribly sloppy at the back, particularly when the standards were set so high last season.

 

Personally though, I'd question the original gameplan as we're putting too much pressure on our defence to keep a clean sheet by failing to control possession in the opposition half. We have enough good players to go away to the top sides and have a go at them rather than sitting back then surrendering as soon as we concede, however the game plan means we rarely make the opposition feel they are on the back foot.

 

Its not all glum - we may have lost those five games in any given season and the fixture list has been extremely cruel to us. I fully expect us to go on to a top four position and to have a good run in Europe as well as one of the cups and Istill trust Rafa completely. However, the boss' record against the top sides since arriving here is absolutely dreadful, and is the difference between us being right up at the top with United and Chelsea, and being Champions League qualifiers and a third or fourth placed team in the league miles off the pace by Christmas.

 

He needs to rethink the way we play away from home. I know Rafa is a fantastic coach and a very clever man, but we need to start treating every game like a home game. Its eleven against eleven, and we have enough quality to play our best players and go for the three points in every game we play domestically. I agree with some caution in European aways which are a completely different kettle of fish, but in England we need to be far more aggressive in our gameplan if we're to get to the next level. Leave a few gaps at the back if necessary, but lets see talented players like Alonso used where they can hurt the opposition and the ball into Kuyt with players around him.

[Andy @ Allerton]

How come we had chances today then?

[Leo No.8]

How come we had chances today then?

 

One for Crouch early on, that was about it wasn't it? How many times did we get behind their defence would be a far better question...

[lawrie]

Rafa has got us set up so negatively away from home, its costing us terribly.

 

You see teams like Reading come to Anfield and play the way we are away from home, not just against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, but even at places like Bolton and Everton. Being very cautious in the build up, not committing many players forward from midfield and full-back, whilst passing the ball extremely cautiously. You usually find a similar pattern develops - if the cautious team concedes a goal, they struggle to turn things around and eventually go on to concede again when chasing the game. That's what we look like against the top sides, someone like Portsmouth who is hoping for a point if they are really lucky.

 

The way Alonso is being deployed, we really should have taken Madrid's money, invested it in the team and kept hold of Hamann for a couple more years. He's playing exactly the same role, sitting practically on top of the defence and passing the ball sideways and backwards to the full-backs, its a terrible waste of a player of his ability who can unlock defences the way he can when at his best. We need his involvement higher up the pitch, and whether it is the player himself or down to instructions I feel his contribution is very, very limited indeed at the moment; the centre-halves can step up and do what he's doing.

 

Sissoko being injured was of course a big blow, but up to now we have been relatively lucky with injuries. Zenden as cover simply isn't good enough, in all honesty he doesn't look even close. You look at him and with Alonso playing so deep, then one of the still very raw Gonzalez and Pennant who still has to prove himself, and what you find is its all down to Gerrard. It used to wind me up when people called us a one man team, but when you looked at our midfield today it was going to be Gerrard to do something or no-one. As it was he wasn't at the races, but its a worrying state of affairs when we are looking to just one man to come up with the goods, because if he has an off day we look desperately short of ideas.

 

Its so frustrating, last season the midfield looked great and we were desperately short of decent strikers; now Kuyt comes in who looks absolutely top class, Crouch finds his scoring touch and the midfield starts to look shaky again. Its like with golf, every time you sort your putting out, your driving goes crap, you sort out your driving and you can't hit your irons. Kuyt looks so sharp, you just feel any kind of decent service and he'll score goals. He links up with others so well also, but time and again there weren't any willing runners when he controlled, turned and made a yard for himself.

 

When you look around the team, I still feel we don't have enough players in midfield who can carry the ball positively. The truth is we are missing the much-maligned Harry Kewell. When he was in the side, he provided balance on the left, and another outlet - a player to whom you could pass the ball out wide, and usually his first move would be to run forward with the ball. At present there isn't anyone except Gerrard taking responsibility for making something happen when we play away from home - worryingly no-one else looks capable. Teams know if they strangle our right side, we're not going to get behind them full stop.

 

Another serious problem is when you play to hold the opposition and little more, making defensive errors is going to kill you, and that has been the case this season. We've been terribly sloppy at the back, particularly when the standards were set so high last season.

 

Personally though, I'd question the original gameplan as we're putting too much pressure on our defence to keep a clean sheet by failing to control possession in the opposition half. We have enough good players to go away to the top sides and have a go at them rather than sitting back then surrendering as soon as we concede, however the game plan means we rarely make the opposition feel they are on the back foot.

 

Its not all glum - we may have lost those five games in any given season and the fixture list has been extremely cruel to us. I fully expect us to go on to a top four position and to have a good run in Europe as well as one of the cups and Istill trust Rafa completely. However, the boss' record against the top sides since arriving here is absolutely dreadful, and is the difference between us being right up at the top with United and Chelsea, and being Champions League qualifiers and a third or fourth placed team in the league miles off the pace by Christmas.

 

He needs to rethink the way we play away from home. I know Rafa is a fantastic coach and a very clever man, but we need to start treating every game like a home game. Its eleven against eleven, and we have enough quality to play our best players and go for the three points in every game we play domestically. I agree with some caution in European aways which are a completely different kettle of fish, but in England we need to be far more aggressive in our gameplan if we're to get to the next level. Leave a few gaps at the back if necessary, but lets see talented players like Alonso used where they can hurt the opposition and the ball into Kuyt with players around him.

 

Not really a lot I could quibble with there Leo

[windy city red]

thanks leo, that was a pleasant read. i agree rafa is partially at fault at some of the away games but i still stand by my opinion that he didnt have much with today's lineup considering our opposition. hecould have played the best players in their best positions, i dont think the result would have changed one bit.

[Andy @ Allerton]

One for Crouch early on, that was about it wasn't it? How many times did we get behind their defence would be a far better question...

 

Zenden had a couple of opportunities and we had two goals chalked off for offside

 

Not to mention the other openings we had

[meepins]

Summed it all up nicely Leo. Particularly agree with what you wrote about Alonso.

[4411]

Agree with most of that.

 

I think Benitez failed though miserably in the transfer window! He's too worried about having a big squad with average players rather then get some real quality in key areas. Now, to be fair he did do that in regards to Dirk Kuyt, he's quality, but Pennant, Gonzalez and Bellamy have let him down. What I was hoping after last season was that we'd improve our strikers, our right side and our left wing (and that's getting a better player then Kewell, not easy). Atm, Garcia and Gerrard are still our best wingers and Gerrard is still our most creative player, even in today's match!

 

Looking at the teams around us both here in England and in europe, we dont have near enough attacking quality in our first 11, compare it to ManU or Chelsea, Real or Barca, we're not even close.

[Guest Kev]

Excellent thread Leo.

[windy city red]

Agree with most of that.

 

I think Benitez failed though miserably in the transfer window! He's too worried about having a big squad with average players rather then get some real quality in key areas. Now, to be fair he did do that in regards to Dirk Kuyt, he's quality, but Pennant, Gonzalez and Bellamy have let him down. What I was hoping after last season was that we'd improve our strikers, our right side and our left wing (and that's getting a better player then Kewell, not easy). Atm, Garcia and Gerrard are still our best wingers and Gerrard is still our most creative player, even in today's match!

 

Looking at the teams around us both here in England and in europe, we dont have near enough attacking quality in our first 11, compare it to ManU or Chelsea, Real or Barca, we're not even close.

 

retrospective wisdom - i could have swore the forum was generally happy with the signings we made during the transfer window.

 

The overhaul was inevitable, it was the only way for us to move forward in the long run. bellamy has contributed more to our play compared to cisse (except goals) and gonzales has chipped in one or two important goals in our campaign so far. Having said that, the signings havent quite fulfilled their potential and I am certain Rafa knows that too.

Edited November 12, 2006 by windy city red

[anfield]

I've been laughed at on here for saying that Alonso is wasted in his current role. We employ two defensively minded midfielders in Sissoko and Alonso. How many other top teams do that?

Edited November 12, 2006 by anfield

[Guest Kev]

I was happy with Pennant, but not at the price.

 

In the spirit of Christmas I liken Rafa's signings to a kids Christmas List.

 

One big expensive present (Kuyt) and the rest are stocking fillers.

[windy city red]

I was happy with Pennant, but not at the price.

 

In the spirit of Christmas I liken Rafa's signings to a kids Christmas List.

 

One big expensive present (Kuyt) and the rest are stocking fillers.

 

I agree and given the budget, they were good if not very good presents.

[Kite]

Think that original post is a load of crap myself. It's up to all team members to do their bit - Gerrard did hardly anything at all in the first half but Gonazalez was trying. Everytime Alonso got the ball he only had Gonzalez as an option, Gerrard was standing on the half way line just watching the match - he wasn't an outlet. Gonzalez however was choking with the ball going forward and taking the wrong option each time.

 

To say that Alonso is only passing sideways and backwards is just rubbish, insulting, and to totally ignore what you are seeing at the match - he sprayed the ball into corners, low into the attackers feet, used the ball intelligently almost on every occasion. Going on today's performance, if we should have taken anybody's money then it was Chelsea's (though I wouldn't agree with that either for that matter).

[McBain]

I'm sh*tting it about going to The Riverside. That's just how bad we are

[Ed-Zeppelin]

On the whole i'd agree about our negativity away from home but we set up and started pretty brightly today.

 

There were certainly ways of being more negative when going to play Arsenal away and we took the option of taking them on with two up front and got forward pretty often and quickly early on.

 

We had the better of the chances until their goal came, and up to that point Arsenal and their fans had started to get frustrated, ideal and just what we needed. The goal came at a point where i felt we were doing ok and had started to play some reasonable stuff. After that they settled and we were chasing, 3-0 from that is no surprise with Arsenal in their current form, even if they were missing chances.

 

My biggest worry, even against Arsenal, is our inability to stroke the ball about with comfort as Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal, and others aside seem to do. It showed badly at points to day and meant that the front players were chasing or under intense pressure before they even had the ball.

 

Also, once we had the ball we were more rushed, despite being under no more physical pressure than the Arsenal players when they were on the ball. This led to us only creating chances when we hurriedly strung 3 or 4 bungled passes together on a bit of a whim. There was a lack of cohesion at times which has come about too often this season IMO, home and away.

 

Arsenal, Utd and Chelsea all seem to know where each other are going, the movements etc and can find each other and move on again. We struggle with this too often IMO. We show signs on occasions but it's too rushed.

 

On the Gerrard in the middle argument I'd like to see it now, with him next to Xabi. As anfield has said, few teams have too such deep sitting, if not defensively minded, players. Scholes and Carrick at Utd are pretty similar to a Gerrard/Alonso axis. Like Alonso, Carrick is not the quickest or a proper defensive midfield man. Momo's injury gives Rafa an excuse to try this without dropping someone!

 

It's frustrating as the talent in the first team at least, when at our strongest, is more than a match for anyone yet for me we're struggling to find the required cohesion that our main rivals have. Perhaps the number of new players in the team etc has slowed the process but 'Borough is now a huge game.

 

That all said i fully expect us to go to 'Borough and win!!!! Funny old game!

[Guest Kev]

To be honest I cant see where our first away league win of the season is going to happen. Rafa needs a complete change of tactics if this to achieved.

[Mike]

he's lost his coach and right hand man has rafa.

he's looking a bit lost.

[bsl]

Agree totally about Alonso, shameful waste of his ability at present, he's neither one thing or another, not creative nor destructive, just there to keep possession ticking over.

Edited November 12, 2006 by bsl

[Guest Kev]

he's lost his coach and right hand man has rafa.

he's looking a bit lost.

 

Behind every good manager is an even better coach ?

[Earl Hafler]

Rafa has got us set up so negatively away from home, its costing us terribly.

 

You see teams like Reading come to Anfield and play the way we are away from home, not just against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal, but even at places like Bolton and Everton. Being very cautious in the build up, not committing many players forward from midfield and full-back, whilst passing the ball extremely cautiously. You usually find a similar pattern develops - if the cautious team concedes a goal, they struggle to turn things around and eventually go on to concede again when chasing the game. That's what we look like against the top sides, someone like Portsmouth who is hoping for a point if they are really lucky.

 

The way Alonso is being deployed, we really should have taken Madrid's money, invested it in the team and kept hold of Hamann for a couple more years. He's playing exactly the same role, sitting practically on top of the defence and passing the ball sideways and backwards to the full-backs, its a terrible waste of a player of his ability who can unlock defences the way he can when at his best. We need his involvement higher up the pitch, and whether it is the player himself or down to instructions I feel his contribution is very, very limited indeed at the moment; the centre-halves can step up and do what he's doing.

 

Sissoko being injured was of course a big blow, but up to now we have been relatively lucky with injuries. Zenden as cover simply isn't good enough, in all honesty he doesn't look even close. You look at him and with Alonso playing so deep, then one of the still very raw Gonzalez and Pennant who still has to prove himself, and what you find is its all down to Gerrard. It used to wind me up when people called us a one man team, but when you looked at our midfield today it was going to be Gerrard to do something or no-one. As it was he wasn't at the races, but its a worrying state of affairs when we are looking to just one man to come up with the goods, because if he has an off day we look desperately short of ideas.

 

Its so frustrating, last season the midfield looked great and we were desperately short of decent strikers; now Kuyt comes in who looks absolutely top class, Crouch finds his scoring touch and the midfield starts to look shaky again. Its like with golf, every time you sort your putting out, your driving goes crap, you sort out your driving and you can't hit your irons. Kuyt looks so sharp, you just feel any kind of decent service and he'll score goals. He links up with others so well also, but time and again there weren't any willing runners when he controlled, turned and made a yard for himself.

 

When you look around the team, I still feel we don't have enough players in midfield who can carry the ball positively. The truth is we are missing the much-maligned Harry Kewell. When he was in the side, he provided balance on the left, and another outlet - a player to whom you could pass the ball out wide, and usually his first move would be to run forward with the ball. At present there isn't anyone except Gerrard taking responsibility for making something happen when we play away from home - worryingly no-one else looks capable. Teams know if they strangle our right side, we're not going to get behind them full stop.

 

Another serious problem is when you play to hold the opposition and little more, making defensive errors is going to kill you, and that has been the case this season. We've been terribly sloppy at the back, particularly when the standards were set so high last season.

 

Personally though, I'd question the original gameplan as we're putting too much pressure on our defence to keep a clean sheet by failing to control possession in the opposition half. We have enough good players to go away to the top sides and have a go at them rather than sitting back then surrendering as soon as we concede, however the game plan means we rarely make the opposition feel they are on the back foot.

 

Its not all glum - we may have lost those five games in any given season and the fixture list has been extremely cruel to us. I fully expect us to go on to a top four position and to have a good run in Europe as well as one of the cups and Istill trust Rafa completely. However, the boss' record against the top sides since arriving here is absolutely dreadful, and is the difference between us being right up at the top with United and Chelsea, and being Champions League qualifiers and a third or fourth placed team in the league miles off the pace by Christmas.

 

He needs to rethink the way we play away from home. I know Rafa is a fantastic coach and a very clever man, but we need to start treating every game like a home game. Its eleven against eleven, and we have enough quality to play our best players and go for the three points in every game we play domestically. I agree with some caution in European aways which are a completely different kettle of fish, but in England we need to be far more aggressive in our gameplan if we're to get to the next level. Leave a few gaps at the back if necessary, but lets see talented players like Alonso used where they can hurt the opposition and the ball into Kuyt with players around him.

 

Wonderful post, mate.

 

Summed it all up nicely Leo. Particularly agree with what you wrote about Alonso.

 

Dead right.

[Bootle Buck]

Great post Leo!

 

We have no second gear. If we go down we embarrisingly keep playing the same old s****. Utd, a*** and Chelsea can turn on the afterburners in any game, and that is the big difference. Today at 2-0 we should have sent FB's forward and went at them. Instead we kept passing it along our back four. Even at home if the opposition come at us we are shaky. We can only beat teams who sit back and let us do our stuff.