just back from the match

[Gunga Din]

and i just want to say that that was an appalling, embarrassing and shameful performance by Liverpool. i couldnt believe how bad we were today, but then, its been this bad since we came back in pre season there is far too much rotating of players and its meant that the side cant gel and the whole team looks short of confidence. we seem to be worrying about every other team, trying to change things in terms of tactics and personnel to counteract our opponents, and thats the wrong way to do things. let them worry about us.

 

sort it out Rafa, before its too f***ing late. the league has gone for another season, its not even the end of October, and its not good enough.

 

play the same 11 on wednesday night against Reading, not as a punishment, but to try and win, score a few goals, and get some confidence back in the team.

 

i'm f***ing depressed!

[Cam]

The a backlash by some on here against people there's too much rotation just because the media have jumped on it. Doesn't mean it's not right.

 

I can see what he wants - that interchangeable squad where the loss of big players don't matter. So why have them? And rest them for what - big games against title rivals? Well, why rest them there too?

 

I know he says he did it a Valencia (and I guess he knows a little better than I) but I don't think he did it to this extent. He rarely messed with his back line. Yes, players need resting but we all know what Chelsea's, Man Utd's & Arsenal's strongest teams are. We all know that barring injuries, suspensions or the OCCASIONAL tactical shuffle that their managers will play them week-in, week-out. Sorry to go all 'football started in 1992' on you all but look at the Premiership-winning teams - we can all name the 2 different United teams, the 2 Arsenal ones, Leeds, Blackburn, Chelsea.

 

Teams win leagues, not squads. Empty, toothless, soulless squads devoid of talent & individual inspiration do not win titles. Title-winning may have become routine at one point in our history but they were not robots. Not faceless automatons interchangeable with one another. We know our football - we want guts, passion, skill, hard work. We even want limitations, something infalliable about a player we can love. We don't sing about "Where once we watched some equally talented squad members play, And could they play in an uniform style where we barely noticed if a big name star was missing due to the emphasis put on teamwork".

 

Pick yer best 11 & play them in their best positions every week. Surely players are like rechargable batteries. If you recharge them before they empty they develop a 'memory' and their operating time becomes less and less. Someone somewhere has mentioned the tiredness from pre-season. Maybe it's just 2 years of being told that you can't play 3 games in a row that's had a mental effect.

[Guest Jack Bauer]

We bought so many players, yet they've barely had the time to play together and get any kind of rhythm going in their play. Not only that, but players don't have to play for a game, they can play badly but because of rotation they know they're going to get a game regardless, especially when you see Crouchy scoring then getting dropped.

[Guest Kev]

It's all stemmed from the pre-season. Not giving a s*** then has put us in the wrong frame of mind.

[Guest Cardie]

It's all stemmed from the pre-season. Not giving a s*** then has put us in the wrong frame of mind.

 

Playing loads of youth/reserve players in experimental formations and dismissing appaling defending as alright because it's just a friendly.

 

Should have been working on our interplay and formations as well as our fitness.

[alias75]

to be fair our back 5 hasnt really changed that much this year, Agger has come in and i think done enough to be first choice when fit, his overall play has been superb but he should be in there simply for his distribution which we badly need from one of our CBs.

 

I think the rotating hasnt helped but i can understand why its been done, on the back of a world cup players need time to recover unfortuneately we've had to blood more than half a team of new players as well and on top of that our key players are badly out of form.

 

If we remember last season Rafa rotated quite a lot for the first third of the season but then settled on 90% of the team which played (inuries permitting) most of the games, and the results picked up, we need to get to that position again and players need to find form.

 

The league has gone but the ability in the team is still there, i think we're potentially a better team than last season and the season before and so if we can find some form and a settled team we may peak in time for one of the cups.

[Cam]

I think the tone was set by the team selection for the first game of the season. It may have been away, it may have been against a newly promoted side, the team that did play may have been good enough on paper.

 

But it's a benchmarker, the first game of the season. Play the strongest team and set a level for the rest to follow. No need to rest anyone. Effectively being 2 points behind your rivals before they've even played was either a dent to the confidence or led to half-assed thoughts of "we'll make 2 points up", then "we'll make 6 up" and now 12.

[bazz]

to be fair our back 5 hasnt really changed that much this year, Agger has come in and i think done enough to be first choice when fit, his overall play has been superb but he should be in there simply for his distribution which we badly need from one of our CBs.

 

I think the rotating hasnt helped but i can understand why its been done, on the back of a world cup players need time to recover unfortuneately we've had to blood more than half a team of new players as well and on top of that our key players are badly out of form.

 

If we remember last season Rafa rotated quite a lot for the first third of the season but then settled on 90% of the team which played (inuries permitting) most of the games, and the results picked up, we need to get to that position again and players need to find form.

 

The league has gone but the ability in the team is still there, i think we're potentially a better team than last season and the season before and so if we can find some form and a settled team we may peak in time for one of the cups.

 

And Rafa doesnt seem to have learned his lesson though has he? The league is gone again. There is no reason to rest players at this stage of the season, come May we might be fresher than others, but we will be fighting for 4/5th. And thats not good enough.

 

Rafa has been given the money and support to build the team and squad, now its up to him to get them playing to their ability. He needs to pick the best 11 and play them consistently so they can build their confidence.

[Will]

Rotation has nothing to do with dire performances like today. That team was pretty much bang on our best side - we could certainly quibble over 2-3 inclusions, but that's the nature of things.

 

We lost cos we were utter garbage and no player could pass the ball. Simple.

[Gunga Din]

Rotation has nothing to do with dire performances like today. That team was pretty much bang on our best side - we could certainly quibble over 2-3 inclusions, but that's the nature of things.

 

We lost cos we were utter garbage and no player could pass the ball. Simple.

 

rotation has everything to do with it. the players knwo that no matter how well they play, they might get dropped. there is no motivation there for them to bust a gut. how demotivavted must crouch be. scores in practically every game he starts, but gets dropped every othet game. Pennant, has a few good games at teh start of the season, then is dropped, now his form has suffered. its f***ing madness. put the best 11 out. play them every week

[plonky]

They might have been tired after Bordeaux; I know I was

 

Then again I didn't see Xabi and the boys in "The Discotheque" at 4am

[Keita]

come on, I thought Rafa was bullet proof and could walk on water.

[smicer07]

That Houllier fella at Lyon seems to be doing pretty well

[DaveLFC]

Rotation is certainly necessary in the modern game but not to the extent that it is happening here. I read somewhere that in Spain Rafa used rotation and got as much stick but in the end it worked out.

 

The difference here is that we are falling behind badly against teams that will not drop those points and they manage without such drastic rotation.

 

It is october and already we're talking of low confidence and the team not having reached their full level. I think without a good run some players will struggle for form all season and that has to be dangerous.

 

Rafa knows best though and I am sure this defeat will make him look at his tactics again and who knows he might come up with the answer.

 

I really think that the loss today should mean that the same team should take to the field on wednesday, not only will this shut the media up (as Rafa would have fielded an unchanged side) but it will give them a chance to gain some confidence and put together some sort of run. Who knows a decent enough display and he could go with that team against Villa.

 

I personally think we should get the team winning and working together as a team before we start resting some of them. That way you hardly notice the missing players.

[Guest Portly]

 

I really think that the loss today should mean that the same team should take to the field on wednesday

 

I agree but what are the chances of that actually happening??

 

Wednesday's match will see a much-weakened side. It might be worth having a flutter on Reading!

[DaveLFC]

I agree but what are the chances of that actually happening??

 

Wednesday's match will see a much-weakened side. It might be worth having a flutter on Reading!

 

I can remember a time when you would have been laughed off a message board for even suggesting that, however it wouldn't be a bad bet. I just couldn't ever bet against us, if I won I'd feel guilty.

[Sion]

Reading win = 11/2!!

 

Depends if they'll rest players too though, if they don't that's v.good.

[Guest marcgerard]

And Rafa doesnt seem to have learned his lesson though has he? The league is gone again. There is no reason to rest players at this stage of the season, come May we might be fresher than others, but we will be fighting for 4/5th. And thats not good enough.

 

Rafa has been given the money and support to build the team and squad, now its up to him to get them playing to their ability. He needs to pick the best 11 and play them consistently so they can build their confidence.

 

But will they regain form quickly enough? The players we all thought would be the spine of the team for this season have not performed well, or at least not consistently well. At present I think we could play our 'strongest 11' and unless individual form improves it would not change the level of performance that greatly. Square balls across the midfield to the opposition, we saw more of those today than we have any right to see in the best part of a season. I think in our case it is the midfield we need to sort out quickly, at present it does nt provide any attacking platform away from home but still remains weak on the flanks defensively. However all of this pales if you keep giving the ball so cheaply in your own half, and both midfielders and defenders were gulity of that today.This season we expected a team of Premiership beaters and all we have present is a team unable to do the basics.

 

Rotation works if the squad have some idea of his role should he be required, some kind of system that underpins the team; at present we are not defending or attacking well, we are nt even passing the ball well. I do nt think Rafa envisaged the movement towards a more attacking brand of football to be easy, but it surely should nt have been as painful as this. Rafa said we would nt see the best of the team until November, the implication being we would be still in with a chance in the run in, but unless we improve quickly 4th will be difficult to achieve; even with a good run in.

 

I would prefer to see to see a settled central defensive and midfield partnership but to do so in both you have decisions to make, decisions made even harder by the loss of form of Carragher, Hyypia, Alonso and Gerrard.

[anny road]

i'd play the same team today on Weds

 

they need to get this out of there system

 

As for Gerrard....her isnt playing well and if you read anything about him it is obv he gets pissed off and it gets to him

 

Dont read too much into it

[Andy Mac]

I agree, today was embarrassing. It reminded me of the white suit Cup Final - as far as dire performances against Utd go. The defending for their 1st goal was unbelievable - a shambles. We seemed incapable of stringing 2 passes together and our movement off the ball was virtually non-existent

 

I am totally and utterly f***ed off tonight - I wouldn't mind, but I'm off the ale as well - so I can't even drown my sorrows

[anny road]

I agree, today was embarrassing. It reminded me of the white suit Cup Final - as far as dire performances against Utd go. The defending for their 1st goal was unbelievable - a shambles. We seemed incapable of stringing 2 passes together and our movement off the ball was virtually non-existent

 

I am totally and utterly f***ed off tonight - I wouldn't mind, but I'm off the ale as well - so I can't even drown my sorrows

 

 

ive hit the ale

[Guest Kev]

I'm on nights, it's a good job otherwise I'll be posting some s****.

[Andy Mac]

ive hit the ale

 

 

Have a couple for me, mate. I know you won't need a second invitation on that count!

[anny road]

Have a couple for me, mate. I know you won't need a second invitation on that count!

 

 

the whiskey is open

[Andy Mac]

the whiskey is open

 

Chin-chin !