uncle bob

because he said it himself. "one day he would love to manager Real Madrid". What other manager have we had that has not believed he was at the top of his profession managing us. After us it was down hill but not our current manager

Much is made by some fans that to be a true/real supporter of the club we must by definition show the same blind loyalty to a manager or player that we feel for the club. To me this is errant nonsense. After 5 years and 40 odd new players (yes some youngsters) we are still effectively a two man team. I agree Rafa has had a lot to contend with at Board level particular the feuding between Hicks and Gillett coupled with a Chief Executive who has failed to take the club forward. Yet Rafa is not immune from criticism in the office politics that have taken place over the last few years. The Liverpool way has been used to illustrate the need to keep disagreements within the club and with the bickering between the owners much too much has been out in the public domain anf Rafa too has been guilty of airing his grievances too often in public. Yes we are currently 2nd but if you are honest our challenged died at Wigan. Also it should be recognised that this position has much to do with the lack of challenge from the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal that to some great improvement in the team. We have failed too often this season particularly at home and for this the manager must take responsibility. If the players are under performing remember who bought them. I have no doubt the Rafa is a decent man but I also believe we are a stepping stone to Real Madrid. Also he has failed to grasp after 5 years what is necessary to win the league which for me is the primary goal for a Liverpool manager. He is too cautious, fear of losing is adopted in lieu of winning. Yes he is astute in Europe but that is a cup competition where defensive football can succeed but not in the league over 38 games and his success in europe owes much to our captain as to Rafa's tactics. Without Gerrard and now Torres we have a squad that would struggle for 4th and that after nearly a quarter of a billion pounds spent on new players. Yes much has been recouped but it doesnt negate the fact that a lot of expensive players have been bought only to fail. For a stark reminder just look to the £40M spent this summer that has not improved the team one iota. Therefore yes it is reasonable to support the club and voice doubts about our manager and not be considered a lesser supporter than Rafa fans.

I would but I really think you would miss me

To what degree does the level of performance on the field reflect the decibel level of the crowd?

another expensive failure

First apologises for forgetting Alonso suspended, no excuses guilty as charged. Its just so pi**ed of with another stupid draw and as I am definitely not a fan of our manager, in current mood feel like blaming him for the seven plagues of Egypt. Regarding comparison with Wenger, much is made of the money Rafa has spent compared to Ferguson, however in the last five years how much has Rafa spent compared to Wenger? However the Wenger comparison is a red herring in relationship to our situation, maybe Wenger should also move on. Sometimes even for a good manager or player they need a change or new challenge, or simply their philosophy becomes out dated.

well lets see because I don't know many fans that would have Alonso rested for Lucas in a must win game particularly as our captain was also sidelined

No my opinions of Rafa regarding the Prem have been consistent for a long time. Some balance is also required to the 'Rafa is faultless' supporters.

Atleast we will see Rafa's priorities again on Wednesday with both Gerrard and Alonso playing

And if we don't address our shortcomings in the league as other teams do we wont even qualify to compete in the CL

But that is exactly what Rafa is all about and in the interim the manx rack up number 18.

good logic

Its blindingly obvious that a lot of money was wasted on buying players who were either not good enough or for changing what appeared to be a successful formation. And for those who keep trumpeting Dossena are probably the same fans who though Josemi was a good player because he was Rafa's first buy. Quality width and pace has been required for years, every real fan has known this but it has still not been successfully addressed either by Gerard or Rafa and when you consider the amount of money that has been spent it unforgivable.

That your more likely to beat most teams with the squad we have if you priority is winning rather than not losing. Work rate and fitness is Rafa's mantra over skill. We have had some skilful players brought in by Rafa who then failed to merge them into a successful team. HIS summer buys have turned out too be woeful and that even to a blind man is obvious. I was criticised for questioning Riera as only an average player, a couple of good games and the fans were raving about him - well what's happened to his form now. If he was such a good player why hasn't our manager been able to improve on his early form or as usual just another duff buy. Keane a twenty million pound player gone. His bad buys this year is resonate of Houlliers last season for which he paid the price.

aren't you ignoring the fact that the squad we have should be capable of beating the likes of Fulham, Stoke, West Ham. Everton and Man City at home. One or two slip ups is reasonable at home but not the number of times it has happened to us this season. Also you ignore the managers continued use of TWO defensive central midfield players at home against by any stretch of the imagination what are inferior teams to that we could field. Whether by good luck or judgement we did have a chance in November to capitalise on the poor start of united and the woeful form of chelsea and arsenal but we failed to do so. If we had then this great run of united would not of mattered. Its illogical to keep absolving the manager from any responsibility for our current poor form and until he is put under the spotlight like every other manager by their fans it will only continue. Give a player an excuse to play badly and in all probability he will, the same rule applies to managers.

If you are saying that Rafa never wanted some of the players he brought into the club then you are deluding yourself. If you are saying he never always got his first choice players then like all managers its probably true but that wouldn't just be down to Parry, not every player wants to play for us and we have always had to balance a players valuation against what we could afford. Also in the case of Keane, there is no way he would of come to Liverpool unless the manager wanted him.

Surely by your own logic his choices in the transfer market would negate a sensible board giving him even more power in an area of weakness. Rafa is a defensive coach and in my humble opinion still doesn't fully comprehend what it takes to win the league. He has bought far too many average players or players with reputations he has failed to get the best out of. Last summers buys have proved to have been a disaster and only for the fact that Alonso stayed regardless of our manager it could of been worse.

And how many fecking draws - If you play 6 defensive players at home against most teams its likely you will not lose too many games so maybe you should follow your own advice

For you information the people I go to the game with were generally supporters of Rafa but whose belief is rapidly fading. If I was give up my seat for a numpty like you it would only have a major effect in lowering the IQ level of the crowd. Then how would we be able to claim we have a very knowledgeable set of fans. But like I said earlier its a mote point regarding Rafa staying, even from his own mouth his great love is Real Madrid and all we have done is make him financially secure for life before he leaves.

It is amazing we draw yet another game at home against a side we should beat comfortably with a very defensive formation and yet the 'Rafa is untouchable' brigade are out in force insulting any poster who dares to question our manager. Mattster had very valid point of view which I share and have done so for a long time that we will NEVER win the league with our current manager. without our captain Rafa has assembled a squad that at best would be fighting for a 4th place finish. Yes he is tactically astute in europe but is clueless regarding what it takes to win the Prem. Agreed we are second but if you are really honest, thats as much to do with the well below par in which Chelsea and Arsenals season has gone. Under Rafa Liverpool will be a side very difficult to beat but lacks guile and width and pace to be a successful championship winning team. Cups can be won on the back of a great defence and a couple of offensive quality players, but the league is a different matter. But in the end my opinion or for that matter everyone who posts on here is irrelevant as I believe Rafa has already decided to leave in the summer and the blame will be put on the owners and Parry, ignoring the fact that he has spent a fortune and without our magnificent captain he would in all probability would of gone sooner.

I apologises, misunderstood 'not in the same league'

Spot on Dossena is a liability. He may get forward but generally does bugger all once he does. Fabio or Insua then if stuck Aggers at LB but never Tossena

Owen I believe was European player of the year, came through the system and the FA cup final against Arsenal will live with me forever, Robbie had the potential for greatness, Owen achieved it both for us, England and a creditable goals/games return for Madrid. Its not his fault he has suffered greatly with injuries. Probably because he played too much football as a teenager (for us).

Irrespective of the motives for the article I believe its undeniable if you review some of the threads relating to Gerrard that whilst almost all our fans respect Gerrard the level of affection is nowhere near as high as say for Kenny, Rush or Fowler or as high as it should be. The same could be said for Owen ( even before the Madrid move), Again respected but again nowhere near the level of affection that was/is shown to Robbie.

It is not only Carraghers defensive ability which should be considered, but also his drive, organising and understanding of what it means to be a Liverpool players. For these reasons Carragher together with Gerrard, should be the first names on the team sheet each week and its up to Rafa to decided whether its Skrtel or Agger he partners depending on the opposition. Aggers/Skrtel is the future but not yet