fabfive

I like how Rafa is building his squad. Mentality is his #1 thing. Doesn't hurt to have quality either, no? Does every manager get every one of his targets? No. The issue of the owners is a seperate issue for the most part. The question raised by this thread looks like, have they backed Rafa and his transfers. For the most part, the answer is yes. Regardless of money allocated or spent. Only Rafa knows if he's been told no. Are they the owners supporters really want? Does that need to be asked.

Can't wait for Rafa to play him in his preferred position.. Well done Captain...

He's to old for that kind of money from Arsene..

Gave him a 3. Did ok. Home team usually get the 50/50 calls. Should have booked Yakubu and Cahill for "simulation" before he ever booked the Yak for the one he did. Cahill was a straight red. So fair enough all in all.

You watched the same match I did. That's my take on it too.

He's given us the balance we've been craving. His problem is his match fitness. What with being injured earlier, he's still getting his fitness back. So he gets subbed. Once he gets his fitness level back to premier league level we'll be even better off.

Something tells me we'll win. The lads will all work for each other knwoing we're missing Gerrard and Torres. United will be the ones over confident. 10 points to 4 after the match will look very good to me.

It's not semantics though is it? If they just represent those who have joined, is that 1,000 or 10,000 supporters? How many supporters based in the UK? How many worldwide? So if you were RBS and get a few hundred calling or 100 closing an account, would you think this action is something for concern? Or just a minor irritant? What RBS will be sure to keep their eye on is G&H paying on time. RBS will look at the next loan, probably request more guarantees, and it will be up to G&H to sign on the dotted line. If they do that, will RBS be taking into account the few who cancelled their account and switched banks? For SOS to have real strength is to actually represent all supporters not just members. Is that semantics? Because if it really comes down to just representing members then they become a much smaller protest group. Albeit with all good intentions. But not representative of all or most supporters. Why not be more transparent? Why not allow even non members to vote on certain "supporter" issues? This can be done via their website. Non members can not vote on monetary issues because they never joined. With internet voting, SOS could show just how many voted for a certain action. If they get tens of thousands, isn't that better than a few hundred who attend a meeting? This could be coordinated through the various worldwide supporter clubs as well. Right now, imho, they're thinking big but acting small. If that makes any sense.

Still, this doesn't clarify anything. The Union was set up to represent all supporters. Their Aims clearly state this. That is why they want ALL to join. Makes no difference if you're from NI, Norway, Singapore, or the USA. If they are only doing things for their members, then they need to restate what their Aims are. Because as most of the members are locals, this will skew the logic and decision making by the board. And probably explains why they are perceived by some as anti oot'er as with their Thomes Cooke statement. Maybe if 5,000 Singaporeans join and have an equal vote....

This is a bit troubling and maybe this is where SOS, or at least who you talked to, has lost sight of what SOS very much does claim to be and is perceived from outside. You were right when you told him " if they claim to represent Liverpool fans." From their own website: Constant Aims To represent the best interests of supporters of Liverpool Football Club. To hold whoever owns the football club to account. Short Term Aims To create long lasting relationships with all aspects of Liverpool FCs supporting community. Neither of those Aims state anything about, we mean just our members. If that is the case then they need to revise their Aims. But SOS does claim to be the supporters voice. Therefore they do need to be more responsive to ALL supporters needs not just their members. And maybe because they have lost focus of their aims to concentrate on just those who show up at meetings, this is why they appears to be a locals only group.

Ok, thanks for that. But is it against decorum for those who just went to say what went on? Or do we have to wait for the official minutes? People that went will remember things and probably give a greater detail into the discussion other than standard minutes recorded by someone. For instance the decision to target RBS with phone calls the same day of the meeting. Was it discussed to give people more than a few hours notice? How was it determined to--- let's all go do this now? Instead of getting more supporters involved by waiting until those who couldn't or didn't attend might be able to join in? Was there a voice vote? Show of hands? Or silent ballot so there's no peer pressure? Or was it more like--this is what we've come up with, what do you think, great we're agreed let's do it? I'm also curious if any attendees came up with ideas that will be used. Which shows an openness by SOS to the democratic process. Minutes do not always reflect how the discussion transpires.

Can anyone who went give us a run down of what transpired at the meeting? Been a day now and so far no one has posted what was brought up, what was discussed, what was knocked back, or what was decided other than the phone RBS yesterday. I just checked the SOS website and no update on what went on.

So how many members are there? Or are we allowed to ask? Wasn't part of the formalization of the Union an annual report which would specify how many members there are. So why does it appear to be a secret now? Obviously there hasn't been an annual report because the union hasn't been in existance a year. But still...

The club isn't f***ing over loyal fans. The club is, if anything, f***ing over the DA because the DA was foot loose and fancy free with who they gave their allotment of tickets to. Because of the DA and how they allocated their allotment, it ends up being the DA caught. So those who used the DA are the ones being f***ed over becuase of the DA's actions. Not the clubs. The club rightly wants proof of where the DA allocates their allotment. The DA supplies a list of "names" on the DA's "season ticket list" not the clubs season ticket list. So her name was on the DA's once. Chances are " not assigned" was listed many times. If the DA didn't assign the extras as "season tickets", the club has the right to ask for them back and use them for "general sale".

Trying to communicate via a forum and email. If I felt my voice was at least heard maybe i'd join. Isn't SOS a Union where all voices can be heard or only those who go to meetings? I'm not trying to be s***ty here. But SOS need to improve their communication avenues with supporters, aren't wee who they represent, so all voices can be heard. But maybe i'm wrong. And yes, this takes time. But how much time do we have to get rid of G&H. And how much better could this have been if there was more coordination of effort. Probably picky to those working their arses off at SOS. But with millions of supporters worldwide this is what you happens. It's understandable, we know that. So some latitude is given. However, when there's no responce to a direct email it does tend to put a dampner on things.

What happens if her grandchildren live in Devon and come up every other week to see their Gran. There's nothing in The Echo story which indicates her children or grandchildren still live in the immediate area. They may be oot'ers

Ant, this will be a broken record. Knox Henderson of SOS fame told me to email SOS with my questions. A fortnight on, no answer. Not even we received your email and will consider. Nothing. I doubt i'm the only one who has emailed them and received no responce. Maybe they respond to membership questions and how to send a tenner. But substantive questions, at this point, are not responded to. At this point I don't expect an answer back. And at this point I see no reason to join. SOS strikes me as a locals protest group only. Only those who can attend meetings have their voices heard. Those who can attend are those who are most vocal and take greatest offence when others in forums raise issues or concerns. It appears to me SOS is not for all supporters at this point. Even though they claim that is their goal. Like other goals this too has not been reached. Imho.

Ta, uncle bob 3,4 12, or 18. the last line of mine really should have read: And supporters should not be involved in determining who the next manager or transfer target is or if we can afford them. Can you imagine some supporter representative on the board discussing if Barry is worth 18 mil.

Isn't there a reason why Shankly decide against any position with the club when he "retired". Any ex-player or manager on the board will always be the target of some digruntled supporters to oust the current manager. We have some Reds right now who don't think Rafa can win the League. All it needs is for that ex on the board to be in the same frame of mind as some supporters. It puts the ex in the firing line as well. Kenny when are you going to do something. Kenny why didn't we spend 900 million the transfer season. Kenny we need wingers why didn't we get any. Kenny when are you going to change.... As if the "fans" representative will be able to force the super rich owner(s) to do f*** all. Further, if any Union representative is part of any companies board, do you know if there isn't any more strikes by that Union? It seems even Union representation on the board does not mean the Union gets what it wants. So then what? SOS calls for perpetual protests? There's no reason not to have dialog and open meetings with the board or owners but to be "part of it" will create more conflict than it's worth in the end. SOS members will be whinging why the changes don't happen or happen fast enough. And supporters should not be involved in determining who the next manager or transfer target is.

Blame it on the locals then. Oot'ers and ooc'ers can't make every match nor can they make meetings. The one's who can protest are the one's at the match, like Gunga Din, and those around Liverpool. Those of us miles away can't even get answers to emails from SOS when directed by one of their ex leaders/organizers to send them one. Others, like Will, have joined and haven't even got a confirmation back. So the only communication being done by SOS seems to be through websites and press releases through and in conjunction with The Echo. Why can't we use the same websites to communicate back? You wonder why there is apathy, others wonder why they can't get answers. And get stick when they ask in forums. If SOS wants ALL supporters to join them and be representative for ALL, they need to find a way to be able to be responsive to ALL supporters. They need to find a way to get the word out locally because isn't that where most season ticket holders and match go'ers reside. They need to get any and every Red locally to support them so that any protest becomes more than a few hundred. There's not a hell of a lot those oot'ers or ooc'ers can actually do other than if they support the boycott of merchadise or send their tenner in then is there? Their only way of commmunication with SOS is right here and other supporter websites. And some posters are very reluctant to send their tenner in if they can't be a part of things other than get told off in forums. There is no apathy Ant. Those that ask questions aren't apathetic at all. They/we want to help in our own way. Not be told to follow and everything is alright, so don't ask. Or come to the meeting and all will be revealed when one can't make the meeting so you're left in the dark. anyway, rambled on enough. Edit: Ant--that was not directed specifically at you. More a rant about SOS in general.

Mash plays for Argentina on wednesday the 10th, so he won't make it back until Friday. So we'll use our depleted side to kick thier a***. We'll win. ;D

What happens when oot'ers, who know 1,000 will go on sale match day, also queue up? How does this benefit locals? Isn't that the reason for allowing a general sale match days? Or is this just to benefit any supporter who may or may not have a fan card?

No a match boycott won't move G&H to sell. It may make those doing it feel they are doing something but it won't move G&H. It's a one off. Or do you suggest doing it match after match. Which will dilute itself as people get tired of it and they miss the match. There are other ways. And i'm sure SOS are thinking of these. Something that can be done match after match, day after day. Something to show strength of support that ALL supporters can partake it. Something that is long lasting and continues to put pressure on G&H. Something that does embarrass them. Right now they have to think SOS is a small protest group and don't really effect them. Only SOS knows how many members they have but they need to get non members on board even if they don't join. And there needs to be some way everyone can participate. RBS is but one way but not so visual that others know you're participating. Just like those signing the boycott petition of shirts. How many actually do? And how many signed who don't buy the shirt anyway? Could SOS not get any supporters in the USA to do the same with Wachovia? G&H have loans with two banks. There has to be supporters groups and other LFC suporters over there that SOS can get help from. But this announcement seems to forget those across the Atlantic and what they might be able to help with.

herbie good post. I think what SOS does next is the most important thing in their short history. To stamp what they're all about, again. I suspect that many want to organize some protest before or during a match. Probably the next match the two owners show up at. And that might allow the ability to vent some anger and frustration but ultimately it will mean little. Except allow for release of said frustration for one day. It won't make G&H sell. It didn't in the past either. I think this is the time for SOS to come up with a different tact. What that is, I don't know. But something more sustainable for more than one day/night. Something everyone can feel a part of.

Notts Forrest. Makes our song more complete. We hate Nottingham Forrest...