Chewie

If I can change, and you can change... what I'm holding onto is this... above all else G&H are interested in the colour of money. that's it. in order to make money we have to be competitive, playing in the champs league and so on. What if for all their lying and lechery the timing of their investment could not have been worse - the world credit crunch and the vast reduction in commercial and sponsorship opportunities...there's no doubt this is the case...but what if after all that they actually do bring in fresh investment, build on recent shirt sponsorship deals, secure finance for new stadium and as much as it appals us £100m for the privilege of calling it by a brand name...what if they did focus on securing rafa and the senior players on long term contracts because that's how they want to build... if we could trust them none of the above would appear wildly unreasonable about the state we are in nor about the possibilities that lie ahead... I am aware that even suggesting this opens me up to ridicule about the extent of my niavete, being duped by Purslow, yanks out and so on... but it is not beyond the realm of possibilities and even if only in their financial self-interests they know they need to compete on and off the park then I'll still have hope... Chewie

we treat the Fa cup the same way we should treat every bleeding gme - pre-season and all - we play to win! From July this year there's always been an excuse... its pre-season and its just for fitness...it's early doors and you don't win anything in September (yup - but you can lose it though)...and so it goes on. This cherry picking mentality is absurd because we have not yet earned the right to be dismissive of anything. I don't care what anyone says about the owners and the financial troubles that are obviously lurking in the background... but what happens when we cross that white line is purely up to Rafa - cue obvious comments about not being able to sign the players he wants to sign...but not for one minute do I blame Xabi Alonso for wanting to leave this football club and look at what the scum are doing for Giggs & Scholes...Sami? And even if we didn't get Barry it was and remains the managers decision to replace him with a player who would not be fit for 5 months. That didn't have to happen. We needed an impact in August - not now... and it was and has been the manager's responsibility to build an attacking line up that can seriously threaten other teams - we have one genuine proper forward player - one! For all the buying and selling for the last 5 years we have one guy who can play up front... cue the diatribe about not splitting up Gerrad and Torres - sorry but how many games did they play together last year? Why should we have expected 50 games for the partnership this year and are we so one-dimensional in attack that we play one system designed around a lone striker. When Clehsea want to they can play with one up front, if they want two that's also possible - heck if they want to play 4-3-3 they can... and by the way so can the other squads we are up against - Spurs, I'd bite their hand off for the options they have...oh, we did have two of those players but for some reason they couldn't work..! Folks, this summer the scum lost Ronaldo and we lost Alonso. both the poorer for it, but I can guarantee you that whilst we'll be scrapping for 4th Slur alex will have his players fighting tooth and nail to the finish in the league. I really dunno what to make of this anymore but in terms of player motivation, tactics and general direction we have stunk big time this year. Last year was great... but that was last year...if we ever had a 5 year plan then look at how it is panning out. Most if not all two seasons agao said that last season we would be happy to challenge but that this season we were expecting to really push hard and probably win the thing. that was almost general consensus. Well...here we are. Let's flamin go out to win every game we play in. There are no gimmees in a Liverpool shirt, but this year we have seen a lot of gimps... Chewie

even with the alternative view I think the points raised still stand... 1. the players we had should have been capable of beating the players Fulham had...so agree with Gunga there... 2. if players such as Carra and Masch are not what they were then why not? All players go through bad form but both looked pretty decent last Sunday... 3. Kuyt and Benny should have more than enough in the locker against mediocrity I know that on any given Sunday one inferior team can raise its game against another team... but here's a thought for us all... perhaps that's what happened when we played the mancs last Sunday... in every competition both pre and during this season the teams that have been sent out to play should be at least a match for the opposition but against Villa, Florientina, Lyon, Spurs etc we have come a cropper. we look stale and we look out of ideas. Everyone knows rafa likes 4-2-3-1... yet therein lies part of the problem - everyone knows that shape now! We are totally set up for one man up front - this is one of the reasons why we supposedly have to think twice about signing another striker (even if we did have the money) - who wants to sit on the bench and watch Nando - but that is just so short sighted its unreal. What about the times when we need to mix it up - go 4-4-2 like we did against the mancs and actually surpirse someone, or play 3 up front (remember the night we were able to do this with Heskey, Owen and Anelka against Newcastle - who could even begin to play in the roles they played that night). From July we have not looked like a cohesive outfit and all we hear are excuses about owners etc. I hate the Yanks, they are tearing this club apart from the inside out and making it a laughing stock in world football... but once again let's look at the facts.... GK - covered, no issues Defence - Johnston, Degen, Carra, Skrtl, Agger, Insua, Aurelio (dossena, the greek) Midfield - Kuyt, Benny, Reira, Gerrard, Masch, Lucas, Babel, (Aquilani.... see below) Forward - Torres (not even going to mention the others Vog, N'gog etc) even with injuries from GK to midfield we have the same players as last year minus Alonso (perhaps we were a one man team rather than a two man team and that one player has left for Madrid because that's the only difference from last season) we have options and decent players who at the minute look like nothing - why is that? What is going on at the training pitch? Were is the confidence? Where is the variance in tactics? Why do we look so flat - the yanks have nothing to do with what happens once thw white line is crossed and the whistle blows. Our teams should be set up to show more heart, more ideas and more will to win than they have been showing since pre-season (when we kept getting told that results didn't matter....now we're being told that trophies don't matter.... - have I missed something. Has the simplicity of the beautiful game gone and left forever? The idea that if we score more goals than them we will win the game and if we win more games than them we should have the prize at the end of it all?!) something is wrong and it's not all in the boardroom. Our lack of attacking options is pitiful and it is a very bvious balck mark against Rafa's judgment. With the exception of Torres it would appear that under Bentiez players such as Morientes, Crouch, Bellamy, Keane cannot cut it and others like Pongolle and Mellor cannot be developed (or used as squad back-up they way we know use Vog and N'gog). This is a problem. Only one striker has proved himself to be of any merit under the management of Benitez and sooner or later the common factor is less and less likely to be that somehow it was all their fault.... mid-table premiership teams have more strength in depth than we have and they haven't spent big money... (and as an aside, yes, we bought Aquilani - but experience has told us that this league cannot be won in the Autumn but it can be lost here. It used to be that a post Christmas surge was what was needed but even Slur Alex recognised that things changed a few years back. The league winners know need 85-90 points, not 76-80. that means winning right from the outset... with all that in mind it genuinely does seem questionabble to buy a player who, if he is to have the same warm-up that other players get pre-season, will probably be about right to play properly come Christmas. Long term he could be amazing for us.... but things seems so delicately poised now that what if short term the lack of an immediate replacement is going to cost us so dearly that the resultant falling away in the league and Champs league might spell disaster for the longer term viability of retaining or purchasing any player in the 20 mill bracket. Once again the manager made a decision and has to live and die by his decisions. So far this one is proving to have been an error of judgment...) So, back on point - we have been poor this season and its not simply about lack of investment. We are lacking in ideas, motivation, heart, tactical nous, and the will to win. these things are nurtured on the training ground, not in the boardroom. We obviously are suffering from a lack of investment.... but the quality that is there is not living up to its potential and that is worrying... Chewie

all the excuses in the world won't stop the fact that yesterday our team was made up of... Reina - one of the best in the world Degen - Swiss International Carra - nuff said Kyriagos - played at international level for Greece Insua - part of Argentina International squad at such a young age Macherano - one of the best in the world in his position Lucas - who HAS played well for us this season and is in both our and Brazilian International squad Kuyt - regularly starts for Holland Benni - one of our top players this year... Israeli International / Captain Torres - nuff said I've left out the Vog as I don't want to introduce spleen into what is an attempt to be rational... bottom line is that that team should have been enough to beat a badly depleted Fulham team. Most of our players would walk into Fulham's team. From pre-season we seem to be lacking in energy, motivation, confidence and - at times this is hardest to believe - tactial nous. We look flat, play flat, and often have little to no imagination. Regardless of ownership issues this is a coaching matter. The other coaching matter is the lack of options up front. I know people say this is a lack of funds but Rafa has built up this team now to have options in every area of the pitch yet we only have one striker at the club - one! In the meantime we have managed to see Crouch, Bellamy, Pongolle, even Keane - come and go.... these are not bad options! These are not poor premiership players... with the sole exception of Torres we have not traded up in the striker department during Rafa's tenure... just before Rafa arrived we had Owen, Heskey and Baros - now we have Torres and basically that's it! This too is a coaching issue as even the players brought in to supposedly develop the team in this area of the pitch have not been developed and built into a consistent formidable unit. I am where I was a few weeks ago - fearing for our future with Rafa but even more so fearing for it without him as I dare say no-one else in world football would come to us now with the ownership issue the way it is. There are huge problems off the pitch and Rafa deserves a medal for what he has done in the club with so little stability... but he is not beyond reproach... this has been a shocking start to the season and with the players at his disposal I think he should be getting a lot more out of this team, and has seriously under-developed one crucial area of the squad... Chewie

I think a massive point that people are overlooking is the trajectory that he's on. With more time on the pitch he is getting better. He is a young player who know is a member of our squad and who at this moment in time is actually an important part of it for us. I remember a time when the young Carra was viewed as a log... I remember thinking the same about him myself. I remember the most recent Champions league final when another unsung player froma few years ago was supposedly a key ingredient as to why the scum could not get enough of a platform against Barca because he was sent off in teh semi... Right now Lucas is playing well... and he is getting better. If his improvement from this season into next season matches the improvement from last season to this then we'll have one heck of a player for us who might just be considered a first teamer... and if Masch goes I expect to see him in our midfield for a good time to come... let's get behind him and appreciate him for what he has become and lets hope for the player he might yet turn into... he's a long way away though from the deadwood that seems to be the impression of him at times on the forums... Chewie

every manager is going to get some decisions right and some decisions wrong. There is little doubt that Rafa has greatly improved the overall quality of our squad over these past 5 years. However, players who have either been allowed to leave or who have been brought in but not really succeeded include... Owen, Heskey(?), Baros, Pongolle, Mellor, Morientes, Keane Crouch succeeded in my book, Fowler was a PR exercise, Kuyt has been 'reassigned!' and what we now have is Torres (success) N'Gog, Voronin.... (can't really include babel here) I know the system is different etc now but whereas other areas of the pitch have been improved both in terms of first team personnel and strength in depth the striking options have not. I'd far rather have kept Mellor and Pongolle say than now have N'Gog and Voronin - what has been the point of that transition? Keane was a flop but then there was that genuine time when he scored only to be dropped - this from a guy who was struggling for form. Crouch got backed to the hilt when he came and couldn't score for love nor money then was treated abysmally when he actually was on form. The truth is that we have spent money on our striking options but whereas in other areas of the pitch we have traded 'up' we have not done so in this area of the pitch. For a guy who has been building for 5 years, including the decisions to spend 20 mil on Keane and the 17mil on Johnson I believe Rafa has got it wrong - badly wrong and yes he should shoulder an awful lot of the blame here. As for this summer....well, even if Aquilani turns out to be a good long term player for us we have to ask why - in a league that cannot be won in October but is often lost in this period - we spent a considerable amount of our outlay on a player whose impact might be too late. If Alonso was to go then and we knew about it in May then it should have been done and dusted and the money spent on a player who would so the job from August. As for where our form has gone from the end of last season I don't know what to say... but unfortunately I have this sneaking suspicion that in terms of motivation and man-management the knighted one from up the lancs road would not have allowed any side of his underperform over such a period to this extent. None of this is to propose that Rafa should be out and with everything I've said the greater concern I have is that he walks as then I believe we would be in dire straits...who on earth would want to be doing his job under the constraints he faces from the idiots who run our club... but there are areas of his oversight of what happens on the pitch that I believe are open to serious and legitimate questionning and this year we may just get well and truly found out. Chewie

blame it on the owners, blame it on injuries...blame it on whatever you want but after 5 seasons with a net spend somewhere in the region of £120 mill - see Maddock's article - we have one decent striker at the club. I know all about the Gerrard Torres link but flamin heck - no-one with any serious ambitions has only two genuibne first teamers in their entire squad for key and pivotal positions. When you look at the replacements brought in for say Pongolle or even Mellor can anyone tell me that N'Gog or Voronin is any improvement - and I'm not even talking here about first teamers any more. I'm talking about the back up. In every area of the pitch Rafa has, in general, improved our overall depth and range of options.... but up front, torres apart, we have yet to see - in any season - a formidable unit developed beyond the only names we would wish to see on the teamsheet. This, I'm afraid is Rafa's responsibility and he should shoulder the blame for this and its not being anti-Rafa or blind or knee-jerk to say this... Chewie

It's not at all funny but my reaction has not been one of panicking nor knee-jerking.... just one of resignation. With the rare exception of last season its been groundhog season for the last 19 seasons. We can never win it between September and November but we can lose it... and I'm not even that surprised. Maybe I'm just insulating myself from the pain of it all... but its all too familiar and all to expected. I remember posting around the spring time of this year that the then current season could well be our best chance of winning it. I believed it in March and I - with the obvious benefit of hindsight - believe it even more now. Back then it was a two horse race, chelsea were in managerial transition but still ended the season with a FA cup, over 80 pts in the league, and a dodgy ref away from a second Champs league final. Anyone who thought that under stable leadership they were going to demise was sadly mistaken.... Slur Alex has lost Placcy... but the same man lost Cantona and Robson and Hughes and Ince and Kanchelskis and Beckham and on it goes and that sheer gutsy winning mentaility will always drive them on.... Wenger is continuining to mould a team in his image that is one year older and wiser and City have blown the whole annual top-4 finish guarantee out of the water... meanwhile back at Anfield we needed this summer to be the final push. We got so close, we have the foundation there. Hold on to what we have and go all out for the final touches on the masterpiece. Add that extra piece of quality to make the difference, to have 3 superstars and not just two.... back in June I and others posted that we needed to keep Xabi at all costs. This was never the summer to sell - replacement costs for all sorts of reasons would be higher (taxation hike, City changing the fees clubs wanted etc etc). Replacing key positions tactially would be very hard. In a WC year he would have played his heart out. the combination of going so close in May was followed by taking steps back, not forward in the summer. It is early, we are only 4 points behind the Mancs and 6 behind Chelsea and so on and so on. The dream is still alive, but it's just getting harder to dream nowadays. We know where the buck stops. It stops, as it always does, with leadership. And leadership does not stop with the manager. Players work within the remit and confines laid down by the manager. The manager works within the remit and confines set down by the club. The frustrations with dealings off the pitch are now being translated with the lack of additional quality on the pitch. I hope that Aquilani settles well. I hope its not too late. So I'm left with that all too familiar resignation, that of genuinely thinking this could be our year back in May to the numbing realisation that this could all go horribly wrong. I'll keep hoping, keeping the faith with Rafa and the team, but to be honest it'll be keep waiting for them to surprise me and, against the odds, pull off a spectacular triumph.... Chewie

You beauty!!! Was reading this thread thinking about my old primary school team and I remember knowing I was playing at right half but have no recollection (or indeed idea then!) how the heck a right half fitted into a team... I knew we only had one CB, an IR and an OR and so on... but that's an absolute gem....good man Murphman Chewie

I know this is a forum and the point is to allow discussion and debate... but I can't help but wonder how any of our players would fare if we ran a separate thread on them dissecting each and every game they played... how many of our players would be faring well at present? very few I doubt... leave the kid alone. Unless I'm mistaken he's played in the last 3 games and we've won every one of them. He also played a couple of games in which we lost but then again so did our world class superstars... opinions, opinions, blah blah blah...that's the point of a forum and so on... you don't have to read the thread and so on.... but these are, as Rafa would say, the facts... - he has started most games this season - he will continue to start games this season, quite a few in fact - he will not play any better by constantly being made a scapegoat as confidence is a key ingredient - he is one of a number of players in our team who does well when the team is doing well but he cannot make the team do well.... all top teams are like this all in all it is not in our interests to keep having a pop at a guy who forms part of a range of midfield options that includes himself, Gerrard, Masch, Aquilani, Aurelio... our success or otherwise this season will include and incorporate him but it is no more or less dependant on him than on any of the others I've just mentioned. Let him get on with it Chewie

To be honest I've found all this nonsense about how Xabi has supposedly behaved badly this past while totally nauseating. The guy has been a class act, on and off the pitch for the whole time he has been with us. The guy wanted to move on, just as Torres wanted to move on - to us. It happens, sometimes for us, sometimes against us. Whatever quotes that have been attributed to him from any of the Spanish rags are worthless. It is obvious that he has been wanting to leave for quite some time now and the only thing that has made it look bad for Xabi is that for once we did not roll over and die in transfer negotiations and he got caught in the middle of a price war which, to be honest, not one of us could have predicted. He came for 10-12 million, gave us some wonderful games, was a joy to watch and he leaves for 30 million. Never bad mouthed the club and never lost the rag publically last summer when he was being hawked around for about half the current fee. I don't necessarily like Real Madrid but as a Spaniard I can see why the guy wants to go back to his homeland to raise his family and play for the biggest club in the land. There's not a single player out on that pitch who would play for nothing, Carra included, and nor do I expect them to. I expect complete and utter commitment from every player, for them to improve our game rather than weakening it, and having done this to leave with their heads held high always sure of a warm welcome should they ever play here again. I do not wish Real Madrid any joy in particular but I do wish Xabi as a quality professional who gave 5 years of good service to our club, all the very best. Now, the king (or at least one of them is dead...long live the next king.... we move on) Chewie

tried to copy in Leo's as well... I agree with all of this and on this thread elsewhere said for numerous footballing (and economic reasons) that now is just about the worst time to sell any of your top players (sterling -v- euro means replacing them will be harder.... UK tax is going to push the gross wage up so that the players don't lose out on tax and so on....Madrid/City have pushed everyone's signing fee through the roof....) If any summer is the right time to play hard ball then it's this summer becuase if we do so we may just win the league and from there - who knows! When Fergis won it for teh first time no-one saw the dominance that followed and top players have been replaced SINCE they started winning it but not before... we need to do the same... as an aside though I wonder how we all feel at Martin O'Neill when this time last year we were posturing about Barry and he was flatly refusing to buckle and demanding a large fee... If he was our manager we'd be lauding him for it... at the time most on here thought he was 'small time'.... I hope we are as stubborn as he was and I never got the bandwagon that said he should simply roll out the red carpet and allow us to take his best player simply because we were Liverpool... and before anyone says that Barry wanted to come here...he, like Xabi, probably did want a move but was not going to put in a request to leave! Chewie

everything about that interview was great and yep - that bit stood out for me as well.... Stevie is in Liverpool what Nando was in Madrid and has made his 'mistakes' - not least for wanting to get out of the pressure cooker in the same way that we are all thankful Nando has actually decided to do - has lived with the consequences of his decisions and has emerged as a truly great player and captain... that read just confirms how bowled over we should be by having both in our squad and by having the captain that we have.... Chewie

been away for 12+ days... actually is interesting to live through part of transfer window without anxiety that comes from refreshing the forum every 5 minutes to see who we've not signed! Given all of the madness - and the real lack of news surrounding us I'd say.... 1. Perez has shifted momentum back to Spain, making attracting players to England is much more difficult... 2. A second huge contributory factor to problem 1 is the exchange rate and soon to be introduced top rate of tax at 50%... 3. The world's richest club who have 80 million burning in their pockets have weakened considerably through the loss of placcy and tevez and in current market have been reduced to where we were in signing Gary Mac (i.e. Owen)... hopefully he'll not have a similar impact but if that's where a club like United are - with their wealth and status and recent glories then dear help the rest of us... 4. Domestically City's mere presence makes any second-third tier signing a lot more problematic whilst if any overseas player is coming to England we have to get past Chelski (cash + champs league), City (silly cash), United (less cash + history and champs league)... 5. Signing players is going to be more expensive than keeping the ones we have (on contracts negotiated at a more favourable time for the clubs)... 6. We saw in Champs league final what a world class midfield can do Given all of the above this is not the time to be selling any of our top players as it will be nigh on impossible and a lot more expensive to try and replace them. Our main domestic rival has weakened considerably and we are one year further on in our development. I don't care what gets offered for Masch and Alonso - do what O'Neill did last year to us and what Fergie did to Madrid - Xabi is the ultimate professional and Rafa saved Masch's career.... we will not be able to adequately replace either in the current transfer market - period. Basic rule of business - don't buy what you can't sell and don't sell what you can't buy. We've worked so hard to get to the stage where we've stopped buying what we can't sell that it would be madness to now sell what we can't buy. Stick it out.... wait for the dust to settle elsewhere in the transfer market (i.e. allow Madrid, City, Chelsea etc to spend themselves out) then see what's still out there that could markedly improve us... if we sell either or both we'll be right where Fergie is - with a great 'net spend' and the heart of the effectiveness of the team gone.... let's be in the place to win this league and see how we fare this time next summer when we#ve no idea how we'll be financially.... anyway - it's hardly transfer speculation but I see no reason for any train of thought that would consider selling either player in the current climate... Chewie

back in my under-14 Boys Brigade league I once scored 19 goals from centre mid, 18 of which were from long range... I could have been a contender...

I'm lost in all of this... but what I don't get is why these two guys are prepared to sell all of their other assets in a bid to protect their investment in us? Especially if it is all short term financing and the likelihood is that they are supposedly staving off the inevitable... it doesn't make sense to me unless they (a) actually really want to own us or (b) they don't want to be forced sellers but these guys are American, they know the American market, they probably have more affinity (at least George does) for the clubs they own over there... yet they're prepared to bet it all on a game they don't understand in a league they know very little about in which there are no salary caps, draft picks etc (i.e. all the sorts of stuff that seems to ensure that major sports franchises in the US are secure)... can anybody out there explain what is happening and why? Chewie

ok - this was locked from the board so I presume it must have been about discussing a transfer in a new thread... but to pick up on the argument it went like this... Initial post suggests considering Owen... reply came in as follows... my reply was thus...please continue to vent spleen at will! Owen was the least of Newcastle's problems.... last year Keane played (fully fit) in 28 games for us (5 as sub) in a team leading the premier league. He scored 7 goals. Owen played 32 games for Newcastle (usually haf fit) in a team under 3 or 4 managers in a team battling relegation. He scored 10 goals... more often than not Owen delivers and in a team creating chances he will deliver even more. Do I think that even last season Michael Owen would have got us the goals Keane didn't that may have made the 4 point difference. Yes I do, especially back at Anfield with his mates. If we can avoid the hysteria and see the facts we might see that in a summer when Tuncay is mooted as a realistic possibility because he won't cost the earth and is a good player in a bad team, a proven goalscorer such as Michael Owen playing for a quality side without any transfer fee - might well represent pretty good business. Chewie

ok, so we're not exactly flush with cash at the moment we're looking for a player who can score goals when Nando is unavailable or needs to be rested we do face the UEFA english rules for Champs league squads... there are close contacts with other homegrown players who are close friends... if the name was not Michael Owen - would we be interested? we know there are injury concerns but then we're not signing him to be our no.1 striker - but no matter where he has played, no matter whether he has had pace or not - the guy has always scored... If Owen had have been anywhere near the air shots of Keane in the first half of last season we may already be champions... anyway, given our resources, that he is on a free etc etc then I reckon he is worth it, thus allowing us to focus on say Silva if we stand a chance and decent right back options... Chewie (puts on hard hat and takes cover from all who would never have him around the place after 2004...)

simply that I do believe (and I hope I haven't been caught up into a misperception by the pundits) that Rafa is prepared to take a point rather than risking losing one to gain 3... I think this is gone now, but I also believe perhaps this is gone because the players now believe in themselves to swat teams aside. The belief and 'attitude' we will have taken from this run in must be bottled and used from the off next year. I know we will go through lulls and that in some games (Spurs away for eg...) we will tonk teams and get nothing for it... but hope we start with the belief that now seems to be in the team... I appreciate I may be wrong here and that the perception may be way off beam or that it really is a personnel issue (which I think we both agree on) and that we were trying really hard but just didn't have the players to execute it... think Rafa is changing too though (once again backed up by having the players he needs in the right positions....swings and roundabouts eh... jumpers for goalposts...) Chewie

not disagreeing with you at all - actually think I made that point in the line you chose to quote - i.e. a little bit more quality either in terms of personnel or in attitude... the point of my whole post was that they are the team 'best equipped' to win the premier league and so they deserved to for precisely the reason you mention. They have also, I agree, been astonishingly successful in recent seasons - but let's not forget that they were one John Terry slip away from not winning last year's game and the woodwork and 2 corners away from not winning in 99 either... at this level, in big games United seem to get out-played more than they seem to dominate. In the 30 games a year they get against the bottom 16 in the Premier league they are devastating and a class apart (hence the 4-6 matchwinners tribute...) I don't want to get into the habit of making excuses for why they won and we didn't. I think it betrays the winning mentality and ruthlessness needed to actually be champions. They won, we didn't. end of. But when I think of the likes of our games against Spurs and Stoke I think to myself - boy we should have won it this year - even with them having greater strength in depth. This was a real chance and we missed it (maybe that's better than saying we blew it). I hope that we are on the up and that over the summer they lose Tevez, Ronaldo, keep Berbatov and that Giggs, Scholes, Neville, continue to stay longer in Slur Alex's affections than they should in his teamsheet... our most critical signing this summer will be whoever we sign to provide more creativity / goals to this team. Chewie

ok, first and foremost last night proved that we need to keep Alonso. We MUST keep Alonso. The reason why Chelsea and Liverpool have both played well against Barca in the past two years is because of the ability of both sides to dominate the middle - for Alonso, Masch, Gerrard read Ballack, Essien, Lampard (yeah we can all debate who is the best yadayada...). United have consistently struggled this year against quality sides who can actually out play them in the middle. Yes they have such potent attacking ability that they are able to destroy most weaker teams, but when they get out-played tactically by teams that have also got better quality players to match up to their attacking qualities they routinely come up short... I'll never forget in France 98 before the tournament Wenger said he thought France would win as they had the best midfield - it is why it must be so glaring for Arsenal fans to see how weak they are in the middle now... but in that game last night Iniesta and Xavi, with Messi in front of them just completely ran the show... I honestly do not think they would have done so against us. I'm not saying that they would not have beaten us, simply that they would not have been able to execute their own game plan as well as they did when faced with Carrick, Anderson and Giggs... With the 3 that Barca had in there they could have played Heskey up front and still have won (this is not said tongue in cheek - this is said as an acknowledgement to what Capello has also demonstrated with England - win the middle and you do not need the world's greatest striker to win the game...) at this level we need Alonso and Masch and Gerrard - and probably for strength in depth Barry as well. Last night above all else proved that to lose Alonso would be a travesty unless he is replaced with a player of similar quality... anyway - on to the tired argument about this years league. I for one subscribe to the theory that the league table never lies. Domestically the team best equipped to win the Premier league won the premier league. United were the team best equipped to win the premier league this season because their strength and quality is in their ability to name 4-6 matchwinners in most games they play (starting or on the subs bench). I have said in another thread that this league will always reward the team that wins the most games. Forget the match-ups between the big teams, forget the goal difference etc... to repeat from another discussion - if we went through a season like this 28 wins at 1-0 4 defeates at 5-0 (to United and Chelsea both times) 6 draws at 5-5 !!! (good games eh!) we would have 90 points, a goal difference of +8 and a terrible record against the big clubs... but we would be champions... that is why United were the team best equipped to win this league, this year... even though I actually do not think they were the best team. The balance of our team and of Chelsea's team is better and stronger in the middle. In fact, given that Chelsea shanged manager, are in the FA cup final and were one dodgy referee away from the Champions league final I think they have a strong case to argue they have had an exceptional season... for all that however, I think this league was ours to win and we blew it. In the end United deserved to win it as they won the most games, but either a little more quality in terms of personnel or in terms of tactics and attitude in the middle part of this season would have seen us romp home. My hope is that our attitude and swagger in the latter half of this season will carry through to next and that we will go all out to add serious attacking quality to the 4 players who play in front of the axis of Masch and Alonso.... end of year analysis over... now - who are we signing Chewie

exactly - agree 100% what we do not need is another striker to play back-up to Torres. What we need is another creative attacking forward who can play in the three behind Torres. If say Tevez came and torres got injured for a run of games I have no doubt that between em Gerrard, Kuyt, Tevez and Bennayoun would get us goals. I don't necessarily subsribe to the two out-and-out options for every position. For instance, in the squad below I think there is flexibility across some positions which should help with focussing on the positions we really need to strengthen GK - same as Defence - 4 positions. RB - Arbeloa, New RB, Carra CB - Skrtly, Agger, Carra, Arbeloa, (dare I say it - Barry) LB - Aurelio, Insua, Arbeloa, (therefore one signing will suffice - as you can see I think Arbeloa is a key player to retain as losing his versatility might mean having to sign two players rather than one) Holding Midfielders (two positions) - Masch, Alonso, Barry, Aurelio, Lucas: more than enough (this is why the Barry signing makes sense to me - he can effectively double up in holding role and CB role if needed) Attacking midfielders Kuyt, Benni, Gerrard, Reira, Babel, New Signing (Major player) - with El Zhar as back-up at a push. Barry and Lucas can also do a job here if absolutely stretched) Striker - Torres, Kuyt, Same New Signing as above, with Babel, N'Gog, Nemeth? this is why Tevez makes so much sense. Like Rooney and like ronaldo for the scum he can actually play in a number of attacking positions and can either be a direct replacement for Nando if needed or could be great back-up if Kuyt gets pushed forward. We've had 3 seasons of Dirk and the middle one was bad. I think this was down to his father dying and other things. I think the Dirk we have seen this year and when he first arrived will continue to be productive for us... So signings needed = one RB and keep Aurelio = buy Barry (quality player in 3 areas of the pitch) = buy one creative attacker like Tevez The priorities for these signings are: 1. Creative attacker 2. RB position 3. Barry in CM To achieve all 3 might require a major sale, i.e. Alonso. If this is the case I say just go for 1 and 2. Otherwise the sales can include - Voronin, Dossena, give Degen away (wage bill) + 20 mill kitty should get us there If selling one of Lucas, Babel, Reira helped with Barry maybe fine but in that order and only because Lucas plays in the same position... This squad would get the 4 more points that would have made us champions Reina, No.2 (whoever) Arbeloa, Johnson, Carra, Skrtl, Agger, Aurelio, Insua Masch, Alonso, Barry Kuyt, Benni, Gerrard, Tevez, Reira, babel Torres 18 man squad with El Zhar, N'gog, Nemeth, Spearing, Darby all encouraged to stand up and fight for squad inclusion Chewie

for all our stats this league always rewards the team that wins the most games. I know that sounds incredibly banal... like saying the earth is round and expecting everyone to be amazed at your insight and wisdom.... but over the course of the season this league will always reward the team that wins the most.... doesn't matter if you have 28 1-0 wins and 4 5-0 defeats... the other 6 draws will get you 90 points and you'll win this league witha goal difference of +8.... that is genuinely the difference and why the mancs thsi year deserved the league - they won the most games. It also, contrary to the 'you must win the big games' tripe often spurted out, means that you can pick up those wins anywhere anyhow and you'll still win this league.... I feel our new found arrogance at swatting teams aside needs to be carried through into next year and I believe it will. I would go all out for another creative attacking player who will create 10-12 goals and score 10-12. That could actually be Tevez. If we get this player we do not need to upset the apple-cart by buying an out and out striker as 'back-up' for nando. Kuyt, N'Gog etc can do a job and if say the likes of Tevez came so could he... anyway - we lost the league because we failed to win enough games and for all the spurs away, stoke at home etc games we can think of we also had our fair share of comebacks and late goals to cheer about... this is not meant to detract from what has been a wonderful season but simply is where we as a club should be in our collective thoughts and mood. Confident, determined and calculatingly dissatsified with the record this past 9 months. Deluding ourselves into thinking we deserved to win something when we don't have the medals to prove it is not the attitude that great Liverpool teams in the past were built upon and it should not be the attitude of our club now. We, and the mancs, are the only two clubs who understand the ruthlessness needed to be at the top for so long. Because they have done what only we have done I respect and admire them for it because to do anything else would be to diminish our achievements of yesteryear. However, their dynasty will soon fade and our star is rising. To believe that we are suddenly the brightest star in the sky but only we can see it is dangerous. If we start believing this thing will be given to us on a plate because we are really better than everyone else we'll never take our perch back.... roll on 09/10 - the year, if we are ruthless enough - that no.19 is coming back to Anfield Chewie

ha ha LOL!

at the start of this season I kept saying that I really wanted a challenge and would be satisified with that as progress.... now that we're at this stage my biggest fear is that this was THE year to win it and we've actually lost it. You can't rely on what might happen next year... if at the start of this season you'd have predicted... - we'd score the most goals - have the best goal difference - lose the least games - have the best, by far, record against the top four head to head I'd have thought we'd be shoe-ins to win the league... having done all that to lose it almost seems criminal. Especially considering that one of the 2 games we lost was against Spurs who we battered.... - Spurs away, the bitters at home, Stoke at home.... there's 7 points that would see us sitting on 87 right now and I don't think it is unfair to say that we should have collected all 3 pts in each game... anyway - I am so proud of what they have done but also can't help but fear that this was our best chance and am hoping that it has not now gone... Chewie