Chewie

Paul Wilson (the bit about pardew aside) gives a fairly good summary actually of it all. Painful though it is to see in black and white...

Remember wolves getting rid of McCarthy and people presumed they must have someone lined up only to watch them fumble around talking to anyone n everyone... Until they prove otherwise...that's us that is ... You don't headhunt the pr guy and spin the roulette wheel with the manager...they can yet prove themselves right, but they have yet to do so on almost all major decisions...

Elaborate....

Ok...two questions... 1. Does anyone here want Chelsea to win (My answer...no way never) 2. Who did people here want to win when scum played scum in Moscow ? (My answer...probably Chelsea until terry stepped up for the 'winning' penalty kick...then I didn't care )

The one thing Bob could do better than anyone was pick a player...Kenny's signings were never as good as when Bob was around..

Easier yes, but its more necessary to be certain of the highest priority. There isn't a major club in world football that acts the way we're acting now. They know who they want, they have it all lined up and they do it. Talk of 4-5 year plans seem outta sync with an appointment process that revolves around who interviews best over a two week period...

Don't think he has...tis why i wrote 'if indeed appointed' at the start of post...but if he is it'll be weird that PR guy gets announced as if poached yet the manager is an application trawl!?! Time will tell...

Ya see... Jen Chang... what evidence is there at all to suggest that, if indeed appointed, this is a moment of genius? I remember a few months into the whole FSG reign hearing the new owners talk about how impressed they were with how Damien Comolli was. Really went out of their way to affirm that this guy with a variable track record was some sort of really inspirational appointment... 15 months later he was gone.. Chang - who knows! Has anyone here got any insight into the world of communications and PR and if so, was the role formerly occupied by Cotton up for grabs, complete with a profile and inviting applications? You know, the way it seems the manager of the football club's job seems to be being handled? Is Chang just one of those selections based on no selection or recruitment that weighs him seriously against other contenders... the way it seems the manager's job is being determined? I'm finding this all a bit strange. We can get rid of Cotton because presumably we have a strategy and an individual for communications lined up, but we get rid of Kenny and are inviting applications from up to 12 different people - without having anyone already lined up and committed to taking the role once vacant. I cannot believe they are being so sure about PR and so scarily uncertain about the absolute major appointments. Get a good manager in and the PR writes itself. Win trophies and nobody really cares if you stop talking to broadcasters... cart, horse...

Any honest trawl through any's account on here will reveal what they thought during the period leading up to Rafa's sacking. For me, I was in the camp that thought he should probably go for two reasons. One was that it was becoming a political train wreck. The second though was based on some footballing observations. Rafa seemed unable to truly deliver a wide player. We fell into the trap of thinking we could not buy another top forward because we had Torres (at the time Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal all had 3-4 really top forwards). The Alonso thing was a real debacle. Some player management issues existed as well. Crouch was backed when out of form but strangely benched when he seemed to be a real threat for us. Keane was not backed like Crouch was on arrival and any sense of momentum he got was killed. We seemed totally wedded to 4-2-3-1 which when he arrived was a real step forward but had become predictable. And it seemed like the money he needed to keep a high squad turnover was not going to be there and perhaps this meant he would not be able to employ his style of management. Those were my reasons, at that time, of thinking perhaps he should go. However, every time I thought out loud this way I also said... but I am more worried about what we would do without him. The fear of a future without Rafa fighting H&G on our behalf seemed more terrifying that any of the footballing arguments that potentially could be made. The second part of my fears proved founded. The first are the uninformed views of an armchair internet forum writer... and what the heck do I truly know about managing a footballing team... here's what I do know. Fact. I loved the team Rafa built that had Reina, Carra, Agger, Alonso, Mascherano, Gerrard, Torres as its spine. I loved the two European cup finals, the FA cup, the feeling that anyone was beatable - home or away i loved the fact that were ranked the number one club in Europe I loved the fact that we had a run of who knows how many clean sheets that equalled the club record and was only broken at the World Club Championships I loved the fact that we put 4 past Madrid and united with consumate ease. i loved the fact that he stuck with Lucas I loved the fact that he was singled out for special acclaim at the Hilsborough service at Anfield, unprompted, unscripted and evidently therefore completely 100% genuine I love the fact that Fergie hated him and he called him Mr Ferguson I love the fact that now I get a tingle thinking he might actually come back and hopefully build an empire again... I worry that he does not come on a tidal wave of expectation that brings players to the club (whereas in 2004 he was the manager they all wanted to play for) I worry that he hasn't mended bridges with Pako who seemed to be so important But just as in 2009 when I was worried more about what might happen if he did leave than if he stayed, I am more worried now by what might happen if he doesn't come back... In the absence of a truly breathtaking set of appointments by FSG to the whole operation of how we run as a football club there is no man I would trust more than to completely give his life over to every detail of the organisation than Rafa, and that includes Kenny, who is the only man I trusted more to represent the heart of the club.

You hearing this from the same place you usually hear itk news about as well as thinking it yourself ? It does kinda make sense, the price to be successful in england against the sugar daddy clubs and already established heavyweights is very high with prospects of success genuinely in the balance...

Thing is, is DW always making this public as a tactic to keep Martinez? If he is one of a number of candidates it'd have been in his interest not to be passed over in public ...

Whereupon 24 hours later they will be summarily dismissed...that's the way it goes innit !?

Confirmed where ?!

What ?

First thing Chang needs to do is announce if Clarke is staying or not, once our new head of legals, Grabiner, sorts out the details

I know, I know...!! But we gotta reach out for something inspirational,...

With these names in the frame they must absolutely be bringing in a serious DOF to do more than sabermetrics...someone to basically do all recruiting and telling the coach to get on with developing a decent first team with the resources at their disposal. There's little to no chance the names mentioned would be able to attract the sort of ambitious talent we need to get back on track...

Is Rafa being set up to be DOF ? could he be bringing in his team, looking after academy, doing profiles of signings, opposition etc and allowing Martinez to coach ?

Ta..just saw tweets on other thread.

Swipe, are both of those paragraphs from Jenkins or is the second one your addition...also who is this guy and is he reliable?

I share the opinion that this thread should be the place for discussing a new manager. discussing a new manager in a thread entitled 'Kenny Boss' is just not right. Obviously its a forum and people can post where they like but just as in football when a shirt is retired out of respect for a legend I think the Kenny thread should be 'retired' out of simple sheer respect. Let all the fuss about how the club is being run continue in the Comolli etc thread and let's discuss a new manager in this one... Kenny is gone and we're all gutted, including those who thought perhaps that he should go. There are reasons for his departure and reasons against it. We've all been debating it and wondering what we need. When ruminating on the prospect of him leaving I wondered the following and now offer it as a contribution to the new manager thread. A few days ago I thought that it is debatable if the following is needed. Kenny leaving now makes it fundamental. What we need now is an appointment to capture the imagination of football. Football remains a game of opinion, sentiment, aura and myth. We have, three times in our history, appointed someone totally new and fresh. Shankly, Houllier, and Rafa. The appointment of Shanks was a masterstroke and was in a different era of life and football. What followed was a dynasty unparalleled in world football. Paisley, Fagan and Kenny all continuing the work of the great man for another decade and a half, bringing titles, glory and global acclaim. We bought into the tradition that the tradition was what made us successful. It wasn't and it isn't. What made us successful was getting the right man at the right time with the singleminded purpose of winning football games for Liverpool football club. The Houllier Evans axis sought to honour a tradition but it trampled all over it. The way you honour the men who built an empire is not to manage its decline out of respect for their memory, it is to realise that in this present era they would be the first to say - tear it down and build anew. We soon realised the mistake and gave Houllier his reign. At the time it was a break from the past. But it also was an appointment with imagination. It captured the imagination of the game of football. Houllier was associated with the global resurgence of French football. The myth (and by this I do not mean lie) grew that here was something exciting happening at Anfield. The interest of players and scouts was piqued. A 'project' was underway that could be successful, and for a time it was. We were rejuvenated, even though 6 years later he lost his way. But I loved that man for what he gave us from 99-2003 - hope, belief, discipline, and a few trophies along the way. The appointment of Rafa was an appointment that captured the imagination. Here was a man who broke the Madrid-Barcelona monopoly of Spanish football. Here was a man who'd won league titles and had european success. Here was a man who it seemed could bring the top Spanish and Latin stars to our shores because they believed in him, in what he promised, in his record of bringing titles. The myth was of a man who was tactically brilliant, the aura was of a man who was among the world's best coaches. Players wanted to come. And they did. The breakdown in the whole order of the club meant that his desire to keep turning over players was not able to materialise and the sheer internal politics got him distracted and eventually the sack. What we need now though is an appointment that will capture the imagination. We are a historic club, but it is exactly that. We cannot appeal to our history when approaching 22 or 23 year olds who only ever remember United, Arsenal, Chelsea or recently City, winning the league. We have an olive branch in that we can still, even in this decade of mess and decline, point to European finals, domestic cup successes and so on. But what we need now is an appointment, or indeed a series of appointments, that make the footballing world sit up and take notice. Not for show, not for appearance, but with genuine and serious intent. This is why a Martinez type appointment, in the absence of a real giant of a DOF, will not fit the bill. When Rafa came the likes of Morientes wanted to follow. Sure, he didn't totally work out, but other players notice when a player of that ilk and calibre is at a club. Myth, aura, momentum, whispers... they create their own momentum. Rafa, I am sorry to say, no longer will fit that bill. These owners have not been ruthless with one legend to then appoint another with attachments to the supporters and the club. Moreover, when Rafa first came he did so riding a tidal wave of his own success. That would not be the case this time around. So, who does fit that bill? AVB might, and 12 months ago we would hardly be debating it. Only time will tell though as to whether he is the next Jose or the Portuguese equivalent of Strachan, McClaren, Hodgson (all who won the domestic trophy in a bad league or a Europa cup run that supposedly meant they were great managers). Klopp would fit the bill and obviously so would Guardiola, but how realistic are either of these? Not very is the most likely reply. So, we are a bit stranded. Yet history shows us that when we have, in the past, been bold and started anew, it has brought success. Shanks, Houllier and Rafa to varying degrees. The owners have proven themselves to be bold. The only question now is whether or not they do have a courageous strategy for starting anew. For capturing the imagination of football. I am choosing to believe (on the basis of their success in America and because to not do so would drive me mad), that these are not idiots. That whatever conversations they have had with the likes of Cruyff have been informing their strategy. That in having Dein as an advisor they have learnt a thing or two about English and european football and how to play the strategic game. That in visiting the Allianz Arena they were just as impressed with the footballing infrastructure of Bayern Munich as with the physical arena. I am choosing to believe that they will appoint, and appoint very soon, a DOF and a manager that will make us sit up and take notice, and perhaps even more importantly, the rest of the footballing world. We need players who are interested in coming to Liverpool. When they get here, we can help them understand why it is right not just to be here but to believe here. For now I'm choosing to believe. Please FSG, do not let us down.

Hunch or from a sauce? What about Ayre...any update there ?

so bad they sacked him twice...

can't believe that Durham is making some sense on TS... basically saying that if this happened in January how many of us would have even contemplated Martinez as manager... so, why now!?

wow. that is true and to see it put so starkly is frightening