kop205

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Never seen the lad play but it certainly seems that he (a) is extremely quick and (b) can chip in with the odd goal. What is his touch/dribbling ability/close control like? Does he just use pace to beat people (a la Cisse) or has he got decent technique?

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108 goals in 300 career games apparently, which isn't bad I suppose (probably better than I expected) but certainly doesn't make him the 'guaranteed 20 goals a season man' that people are always clamouring for. And he is a total, utter c***.

I wouldn't disagree particularly with that, just think 'exceptional' is going a bit far - especially given the long spells this seasons when we have struggled to score goals, something from which Crouch can't be immune to criticism. I'd go with a 'good debut season witht he promise of more to come'! My point was probably more about Bascombe really - that he sees things in very black and white terms and has his favourites and his scape goats, which is fine when talking as a fan but less when writing as a professional journalist. He does tend to get an idea in his head that someone can either do no wrong or do nor right and then bang on about it forever and a day - note the constant needless digs at Houllier and Morientes. He just seems a bit prone to hyperbole at times and does labour points - which is probably what I'm doing, so I'll leave it there!

Has he had 'an exceptional debut season' though? Not saying he has been s*** as he has certainly made progress and we know how to use him better now, but 'exceptional' seems a bit over the top to me. Fowler and Owen had exceptional debut seasons, I'd say Momo is having a very good one too. Not really any half measures with Bascome though is there?

Ca alors, ca c'est mon stylo rouge. (Copyright Toutes Directions circa 1980 something) About as sensible and relevant as the premise behind this thread. What did the Romans ever do for us anyway?

Why do you put. Full stops in the middle. Of your sentences.?. Only mistake Benitez was made was putting Morientes instead of Fowler near the end. I'd just love to have seen their faces...

Thought most of the bookings were deserved personally. Gerrard's first was harsh perhaps, but no argumants with the second. Certainly Alonso, Cahill, Weir, Ferguson could have nowt to argue about. Kewell and Stubb's deserved theirs for looking so gay. Who else was there? Can't really remember. Either way, they have to be the only club in the world who can complain about the referee after a game in which he has sent off the opposition's best player after 18 minutes for 2 bookings, one of which could have been dealt with by having a quite word. Truly pathetic.

There was a Reading fan on SSN yesterday saying that the place he is most looking forward to visiting is Anfield and hearing YNWA being sung - reckons a lot of others feel the same. Nice to know we are still held in high regard and just goes to show that Chelsea talk s**** when they say that being hated is an inevitable price of success.

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Fair point, though unlike Owen I would say that Ronaldo is undeniably past his best so if it was a choice between the two i'd prefer Owen (plus the fact that Owen was never really given much of a chance at Real and was bought and sold as a money making exercise).

If he isn't good enough for Madrid, why is he good enough for us? Morientes wasn't.

Which is pretty much all that I was saying really. Anyway, f*** it, not going to worry about something I have no control over, nor am I going to pretend that I have a monopoly on the truth.

Kromkamp is cuptied. He played for Villareal in the group stages.

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All of which is fine, but you still don't answer my main point which was that, at the moment, with no investment coming in, it would be foolish to commit £200 million to a new stadium. You are the one who is struggling to see things. In an ideal world, we'd build a fantastic and atmospheric new stadium with a much increased capacity but given that we don't have the financial clout to do that maybe there is a need to consider alternatives. Sorry for trying to be constructive. But surely if the stadium plan is ditched then some of the money set aside for it could be made available? And if redeveloping Anfield is completely out of the question, why have the club been buying up properties? Genuine questions. I'm sure you'll have decent answers 'cos you seem to be in the know to some extent.

Did I miss something? Was your original post a pisstake? Otherwise, why not actually try answering the points I made and explain why you disagree with them?

Apparently the release clause is 12m if they don't qualify for Europe, though I can't swear to the truth of that.

'We're going to die'?! Questionable choice of terminology, to say the least. I really, honestly don't think a new stadium would solve all (or even any) of our perceived problems. Why would a new manager be less likely to come here if we are still at Anfield? If anything, might not the reputation of the stadium do something to attract him? And pumping a load of money into building a new ground would, in the short term at least, have a negative impact on our ability to provide adequate transfer funds - which, if the papers are to be believed, could mean 'Bye-bye Rafa'. Committing to bulding a new ground before we've secured investment is crazy. I really think that as things stand at present, our futre is best served by staying where we are. That isn't 'sycophantic nostalgia'. When the standing Kop went, my instinct was that we might as well move so I'm open to the idea in principle. As time has gone on though, the proposals have seemed less and less practical. That would be expensive too, but the fact that the club have bought up so many properties around the ground suggests they do have it in mind as a contingency plan. Can't figure out whether you are joking there! Wouldn't the new gorund only be 55,000? So it would only be about 10,000 extra seats?

The impact that atmosphere has on the team and result can sometimes be overstated but I defy anyone to tell me that the fans didn't play a huge, huge part in the Olympiakos, Juve and (particularly) the Chelsea games last year. I left the ground after the semi KNOWING that I had just contributed to that result, as did 40,000 or so other peolple. For me, Anfield as it is now is a bigger asset to us than a slightly larger ground would be. Just listen to the way that players (our own and those of other clubs) talk about the place. I think it is madness to chuck that away (and it would be chucked away) for the sake of 10,00 extra seats that would probably be empty for a fair few games anyway. I don't like the 'twelth man' tag or talk of retiring the no.12 because it is all a bit too self-congratulatory, but the fact of the matter is that there are times when the crowd have a bigger impact than any player can.

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Don't forget that Dynamo Dogs*** have won 1-0 at Anfield in the 3rd Qualifying round for the last two years. There is an accident waiting to happen there.

Why? Surely we could use the money we would save from not building a stadium towards buying players?

You are the f***ing wacko mate. If the inspiration for the banner didn't come from the kinds of things that lots of other European clubs use, then where did it come from? Oh, sorry, I forgot - it was inspired by the neo-facist leanings of the people who designed it, wasn't it? And yes, I know you weren't actually saying that. I know that your point was that it could be interpreted as a neo-facist symbol rather than actually being intended as one. But my point was that it could just as easily be interpreted as a symbol of our European heritage (and the fact that we consider oursleves in many ways more of a 'European' club, and more akin to Milan, Barca and the likes, than an English one). Anyone with even the most basic knowledge of our club would understand that. If you donlt like it then fine. I agree that the time and effort put into it doesn't per se spare it form criticism. But the neo-facist slant is just b******s, plain and simple. No, arrogant to decide that it wasn't simply enough to say that 'it feels wrong' to you but that instead you had to say 'It is wrong, absolutely'. That is what was arrogant, because you are setting yourself up as the ultimate moral authority on what Liverpool fans ought and ought not to do. Saying it 'feels wrong' is one thing, saying it 'is wrong' is quite another and I don't think any argument you come up with could prove that because it is a subjective statement. As I said originally, you are being ridiculously precious over this when you identify it as a facist symbol. Should we get rid of the flame too because of the religious connotations it could be perceived to carry?