kop205

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One ticket per fancard.

Don't hide behind the fact that I left out a question mark, that is f***ing pathetic. But if we are insisting on quoting people properly, then when you quote me then at least atempt to answer the points that I have made instead of simply saying (a load of b******s deleted) and trying to draw attention to one tiny and irrelevant detail. Answer the other points I made - tell me why I'm not as pissed off with all the other nationalities in our sqaud as I am with Cisse. But you don't need to, do you? You know the answer. It is because I for one don't give a s*** where Cisse comes from provided he has the quality and puts in the graft required to play for us. Some of our players lack one or the other, but for me he is unique in this squad at the moment in having/doing neither of those things, THAT is why he has pissed me off so much. Leaving out the question mark is a tiny and irrelevant detail because clearly you think it is a possibility that the 'underlying reason' why he is getting slagged off so much is that he is French. Whether you put in a question mark or not doesn't change that. Perhaps the 'underlying reason' is nothing more sinister than the fact that many, many people think he is s*** and lazy and was the most inept performer against our most passionate rivals. Nobody has taken more s*** over the years at Liverpool than local lads, be it Gerrard in the last two summers, Carragher a few years back, the general unappreciation of Owen, Murphy, back to likes of Sammy Lee, so even raising the question of this being because Cisse is French is not only offensive it is misguided. I'm sure you are a good lad mate but I think you are way, way out of line in what you have suggested there and I for one take exception to it.

If I was wrong to be so intolerant of Kewell (and I'm still not convinced he is totally blameless for his poor 2 years) then fine, but that has f*** all to do with Cisse (about whom I had major doubts before he got injured, based on what I'd seen of him with us and what I'd seen of him at Auxerre - i.e. an alarming lack of basic skills). Stop clutching at straws and trying to make out that Cisse is 'another Kewell', getting unfairly crucified because of injuries. He is getting crucified because he is f***ing s***. There, I've said it. I hate having to say that about one of our players and when he is out on the pitch I would never do anything to undermine but I'm not having people telling me that I can't criticise him or that when I do I am onoly doing it because he is either (a) French or (b) somebody who's crap performances are down to a lack of fitness.

What a load of sanctimonious crap. The fact he was on crutches this time last year has nothing to do with it. The fact he is French has even less to do with it and to be honest it is an insult to anyone who has posted criticism of Cisse that you would even suggest it does. And as for taking pleasure in slagging him off..this is called 'getting things off your chest'. There is a difference. I don't feel the need to vent such frustration at the Spaniards in the team, the Finn, the Irishman, the English fellas, the Norwegian, the Malians or, incidentally, the other French player in the squad (though I have at times had my patience tested by the Aussie). That has nothing to do with their nationalities and everything to with the fact that they ALL both (a) possess at last rudimentary football skills and (b) put in a level of effort that I feel to be sufficient. Neither of those things are true of Cisse. 'Because he's French' my a***.

I was astonished that he was playing, so were all of the people I was watching it with. One of them missed the teams being put up and just saw the list of subs. When Cisse wasn't there, his imediate reaction was that he hadn't even made the squad until I told him he was playing. His inclusion speaks volumes about the lack of quality striking options we have. I don't doubt that Rafa had a plan for the game, but it backfired big time - due in no small part to the complete and utter ineptitiude of Cisse. He is closer to the playing level of Meijer and Sean Dundee than he is to Owen, Fowler or even Heskey. There were never any doubts that the first two players I mentioned there were s****, they should be no doubts about Cisse either.

Surely, in the light of some our buys in the last 5 years and given our seemingly less than flush cash situation, that is exactly what we should fear. I get the impression that yes, Rafa does have very clear ideas about which players he wants and I do believe he wanted Walcott. I also believe he has 'Plan Bs' when those moves don't come off and because of that he isn't going to be bullied or panicked into paying over the odds. I'm happy enough with that. He's shown decisieveness in opting not to pursue the move when the price reached stupid proportions. Maybe Walcott will go on to prove worth every penny, but I think there were excellent reasons why we were right to decide not to be the ones taking that gamble.

Christ on a bike, what the f*** are those stats meant to prove? He'll be saying next that Xabi Alonso just hoofs it - after all, just look at the Luton game, smacking the ball 60 yards up field with no intention of finding a red shirt... Does anyone seriously think we are a 'long ball team' in the 'hit and hope' sense of the term. We have players adept at hitting long passes. There is a difference between that and aimless long balls. I think our football is excellent to watch and when that hasn't been the case over the last few years, I've been ready to say so.

In any thread there will be differences of opinion. You are perectly entitled to think that Kewell is a better player than Garcia and that Rafa rates him more. Others are perfectly entitled to express the view that the praise of Kewell's recent form is, in thier opinion, excessive when it is compared to what they perceive to be a continued lack of appreciation for Garcia in some quarters. That is a valid point to make in this thread - basically using what Garcia has achieved as a benchmark for Kewell, given that the former has undoubtedly made a bigger impact than the latter. It isn't using him as a stick to beat him with, more as a measuring pole - reminding people that there ought to be more to come. I do agree with sammya that some people are finding it hard to give up disliking Kewell because it involves eating humble pie, though I disagree with him that there aren't people who are far more tolerant of Kewell than they are of Garcia (and vice-versa). It is perfectly valid to express on an opinion comparing the praise that Kewell is receiving for his current form with the praise received by others in the squad.

True, others did bring Garcia into it but not by saying he is better than Kewell, simply by saying that they don't understand why some people who rave about Kewell are very critical of Garcia. The basic point was that if people are prepared to be forgiving of the weaknesses in the game of Kewell then they should also be forgiving of the weaknesses in Garcia's game because both are 'flair' players who will occasionaly look world beaters but can also at times be dreadful and require a bit of patience. We all know what Garcia's faults are are and nobody is trying to pretend that they don't exist. That wasn't the point of the comparison with Kewell and the whole 'who does Rafa rate more?' is, whatever you think, a question we can't know the answer to with any certainty (unless you are Rafa). Whatever evidence you out forward for him preferring Kewell can be cancelled out by evidence for preferring Garcia (e.e. the fact that he has bought him 3 times, as I pointed out above). I just think the whole 'who does he rate more?' debate is irrelevant 'cos it is unresolvable. At no point has anyone in this thread said Garcia is better than Kewell, just that they frustrated when people arfe more toerant of Kewell than they are of him. Presumably, their reasons for that are something that IS undeniable - that Garcia has, for whatever reason, made more of an impact at Liverpool than Kewell has been able to. Maybe Kewell is better, maybe Rafa does rate him more, f*** knows. What I do know is that we wouldn't be Champions of Europe without Garcia and for that alone he deserves a level of respect that Kewell has not yet earned.

Why should I ask myself that? Why don't you ask yourself whether Kewell would get picked ahead of Garcia so often if Gerrard was adept on the left as he is on the right? It is perfectly clear to me that Rafa rates BOTH players highly. The debate over who he rates higher isn't a relevant one. Maybe he picks Kewell more regularly than Garcia when both have been available, (but this has been such an infrequent occurence that there are hardly enough examples of it happening to constitute firm evidence). On the other hand, Rafa has bought Garcia three times which suggests he is a bit of a favourite. I canlt say which Rafa rates higher cos I'm not Rafa and in any case I donlt think they are in direct competition for a place. The post I was replying to and agreeing with was simply stating that it is odd the way some people rave over Kewell but slate Garcia, given what the latter has achieved in comparison to the former. I happen to think that is fair comment. It is nothing to do with me or anyone else rating Garcia higher than Kewell.

One the one hand...am actually glad that we didn't get any awards because I don't want the club to be associated in any way with establishment b******s like this. On the other hand...nobody will convince me that had it been Arsenal, United or Chelsea winning the Euopean Cup, in such dramatic fashion, they wouldn't have been recognised in some way regardless of their League performance (and this is from someone who doesn't generally feel that the world is against us) Did we 'deserve' any award? Well, does anyone ever really 'deserve' these awards (Paul Collingwood anyone? Rachel Yankey)? They are a pile of b******s anyway and in one sense nobody 'deserves' them. Does our achievement at least stand comparison with others who were recognised (and have previous Liverpool achievements exceeded the achievements of others who have been recognised prfeviously)? Without doubt. All things considered, we have been overlooked on a number of occasions, going back to Paisley. The club should now draw a line under it and refuse to accept any such honours - I'm not happy with Parry touting for them, we should just tell them to f*** off (and a posthumous award for Paisley would do nothing to change my mind. They had the chance to honour him, and missed it). So, in summary then! I'm annoyed in the sense that it is a 'snub' other clubs wouldnlt have received. I'm quite happy because these honours don't really mean anything to me personally anyway!

Pretty much my thoughts really, always thought he was used unfairly by some to gripe about Houllier. I remember a cup game against Man City in the Treble season which just about summed up his Liverpool career for me. He was tremendous in the first half, set up Heskey for goal with a great pass and scored a pen himself but didnlt reappear after half-time. Showed all aspects of his time at Liverpool in 45 minutes - capable of tremendous performances, albeit usually against the weaker opponents, but never able to sustain that level due to injuries and, for whatever reason, the occasional tendency to disappear.

I suppose looking at their respective career stats it is difficult to make a case for Flo being better than Cisse. What I will say though is that the flaws in Flo's games (lack of strength, not enough end product at times) are things that can be worked on and that coaching staff should be able to improve over time. I don't think his poor goals return is down to poor technique or being a bad finisher or not having any goal scoring instinct. The flaws in Cisse's game (abysmal first touch, inability to receive the ball played to feet or to keep possession with his back to goal, lack of basic work ethic) are to my mind harder to rectify and make him a much more limited player. So although I wouldn't necessarily claim that Flo is better at this stage, if it was a choice over which to keep, I would keep Flo for his wildcard value and on the basis of the player he might yet become. Flo at his best has, for me, more to offer than Cisse at his best. Maybe Flo won't evfer do it consistently but I'd love to see what Rafa could do with him as I think he has the raw materials of an outstanding footballer. I don't think Cisse does, to be honest.

Paul f***ing Parker?! Drajan Stojkovic on the other hand...now he could play.

Be fair like. It isn't as if he would scream out 'Ooooch, yoooo beuateeeeeeeee' at Gerrard lashing one in from 25 yards, now is it?

Yeah had wondered about heading up to The Albert or somewhere but was ideally thinking about somewhere in town. Cheers anyway.

Other than when I've been overseas, this is the first derby I've not been to for a while. Any tips on the best pubs in town to watch it in? Looking for somewhere likely to be fairly relaxed, with more reds than blues, if possible. There will be a group of us, including a few girls, so not really up for too much in the way of 'banter' with our blue chums - just somewhere to wacth the game. Usually watch any games in places like the One Four or Golf Bar, but reckon there will be too many blues there for my liking! Or do I just have to bite the bullet and accept that everywhere will be mixed and everywhere will be pretty tense?

First time for a while that I've not been going to the derby (other than when I've been out of town). What pubs in town are likely to be more red than blue? Looking for somewhere decent to watch it.

Reading that at the moment (Christmas present), interesting book. All that was really happening there though with Gerrard was that he was being treated the same as all of the other players which for whatever reason (ego, a need for reasurance, whatever) he didn't like - especially on the back of the way that Houllier supposedly fawned over him. I'd still say that most of the difficulties last year were in Gerrard's mind, but credit to him - he has responded well this season and actually talks and acts like a Liverpool captain should do now. I enjoyed seeing him go and sort Shearer out the other day after Bowyer's tackle - although it isn't the kind of thing I'd ideally want us getting involved in, once it had started it was good to see that he wasn't going to let Shearer go unchallenged (and also good to see JC taking our players away, which you need someone to do in that ind of situation). The only 'downside' of the book so far for me is the time spent raking up old faults of Houllier's. Say whatever you want about him, if he hadn't won the trophies he did in his time with us, we would have sunk so far off the radar that Benitez probably wouldn't have come.