kop205

I said when Abramovich took over that we would just have to grin and bear it for a few years whilst they win a lot of trophies - sit tight waiting for it all to go t*** up when Interpol catch up with him. It is a bit depressing at times, knowing that there is simply no way we can compete for players who would make a massive difference to us (like Shevchenko) but as Rimbeuax points out, 5 - 0 is some consolation! That, and the fact that we've got Rafa who might just be able to bridge the gap anyway if we have a good season transfer activity. In a strange way there is something exciting (and 'real') about having to wheel and deal a bit rather than just going out and writing another huge cheque. Even if we could do that I'd probably just worry (as I'm sure all Chelsea fans must do deep down) about what will happen if/when the money-man goes. All Kenyon's talk about 'sustainability' is b******s.

I think the 'joke' is the idea of releasing a DVD of a match that you lost - let it never come to that for us... Am certain that, a few years back, I saw an Everton video/DVD of the Gary Mac derby. I know I can't have done, that not even they would release a DVD of that (unless the missed off the last few minutes), but I am sure I saw it. Like I said, I know I can't have done and I must have just been hallucinating or something.

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Catch him while you can, I have a sneaky feeling he may not be around much longer to share his views with us. Back on topic - Gerrard dived, give a s***. Can't say I 'approve' as such, but until he starts doing it week in, week out like many do then I'm not going to waste any time wringing my hands over it either. And the only person I've ever heard call Kenny a diver is Allardyce.

Quality! 'Injuries permitting' was quite a big rider really, wasn't it? Incidentally, what is all the s**** about Big Dunc in the Echo this week, and how he was the scoure of Liverpool? How many derby goals did he actually score? I can think of 2 - the header in Fat Joe's first game when fair enough, we did struggle with him, and one in the Gary Mac derby at their s*** hole in 2001. Were there many others? Many match winning performances?

I said as much about us and Arsenal in an earlier post. Fact is though that when it has come to the crunch none of the top clubs over here have gone for him and I don't believe he has been the one pulling the plug on those deals. I stand by what I said - Hargreaves wouldn't make it into the first teams of any of the top 5 over here and, given that Eriksson seems to gravitate towards those clubs in his selection, he would therefore struggle to get into the England squad were he playing over here. That has nothing to do with not liking him just because he plays abroad, which was the accusation Maldini made. It is actually providing reasoned argument to show why playing for a big club works to his advantage and has resulted in him being given far more chances than players who are probably no worse than him but play for less fashionable clubs. The fact that the club happens to be abroad is irrelevant. I don't know enough about how Bayern play to understand what his precise role is there (though I suspect it is to just sit in and let Ballack rampage) so I'm not going to cast doubt on his value to them. He has been there a long time and is obviously well-drilled in what he does for them, but that hardly makes him worth a place in the England squad or, which is tthe real point, a quality player. Nicky Butt had been at United a long time and was well-drilled in what he did for them but he was a very average footballer and never going to do anything of note at international level. He soon disappeared off the international radar when he left United and no other big clubs were even remotely interested in him. I just have never seen Hargreaves offer England anything special, or much at all, and as Hansen said last night, there is not a single area of his game that would score more than 7/10.

How exactly does my post prove your point? How exactly does what I said prove that if he was born in England and playing his football here then I wouldn't be so harsh on him? Offensive b******s. I happen to think that plenty of the England squad are vastly overated, including Ferdinand, Lampard, Lennon, both Coles and the 'captain', all of whom were born in and made their names in this country but given that your post was about Hargreaves I chose to give my opinion on him. I'm not even an England fand so the idea of hos 'Englishness' being at question is irrelevant and means nothing to me. I don't give a s*** that Bayern are a 'big club', I still don't rate Hargreaves. Big clubs still have average players playing for them - Traore won the Champions League with us for f***s sake. It doesn't automatically make him a good player. Sometimes players get lucky, are just in the right place at the right time I'll ask again - if he is that good, why have NONE of the top clubs in this country made a move for him, when he has in the past made it clear that he would be prepared to come. The Mancs have been crying out for a holding midfielder, we need a long term replacement for Didi, Chelsea have nobody to do the Ukelele role should he get injured, Arsenal were in the market for a Vierra replacement - none of us went in for Hargreaves. You might argue that this doesn't automatically make him a bad player and fair enough, I'd agree. I think he's a bad player because of the evidence of my own eyes from when I've seen him play. This just backs it up. If you think different, and want to use him playing for Bayern to back you up, then fine. Maybe you are right, maybe there are people for whom his 'foreigness' is an issue - but don't accuse me of that by saying that my post 'proves your point'. Take things at face value sometimes - I think he is s*** and have no hidden agenda for saying so.

The 'third club' is meant to be Milan, isn't it? Some trio chasing his signature, that. Although hopefully Milan wil get relegated to clear the way for us a bit.

Not that arsed either way, but that is patently untrue. Wild challenge, but no contact. And I hate Ian Wright and Lee Dixon. If the team got 7/10 overall then that was the very least that Carra deserved, especially given that he played 2 positions more than adequately. For what its worth (and in my eyes it isn't worth much cos I hope England get dicked and are on the first plane home, swiftly followed by the S*n bowler hat-clad, great escape singing, 'In-ger-lund till they die', lobster-skinned, shaven-headed bunch of f***ing asbos that they call 'supporters')...where was I? Oh yeh, for what its worth, it is hadly as if your holding midfielder SHOULD have the chance to truly excel against f***ing Hungary. The real proof of Carra's worth, wherever he plays, will be if/when he is used against a decent side - and I think he is as good a shout as anyone else in the squad for that role.

Ruddock certainly did, a couple of times at least, 'cos I remember thinking that in his case it was probably indictitive of a lack of basic fitness/conditioning. Can happen to anyone to be honest, no real rhyme or reason to it.

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Kewell at the right price and if the incoming deals go through. Though in reality it is possibly just a slight exaggeration by Bascombe to emphasise his favourite 'Houllier ruined this club' theme. (Not that he is necessarily incorrect in his criticisms, just that he repeats the same ones over and over and over and over again).

Always thought it was 'THEY'RE tired...'?

Hilarious bit in the Echo about Everton trying to come to an agreement with the other clubs that they would all bid the same and then let Johnson decide where he wants to go. Natutrally, they were told to f*** off as Wigan at least were able/willing to outbid them.

Why the f*** buy him at all then if we thought he wouldn't cut it? Dunphy is full of s***.

Please, please, PLEASE tell me that you are joking?

The single most ridiculous post I have ever had the misfortune to read.

No, just that he has said he'd love to play for Marseille someday, that he almost went there in January, and that it was us who pulled the plug not him.

Put the f***ing goggles back on Momo and read what I actually posted. I didn't say that he was a terrible person - in fact, I actually said that the comment that he was a 'terrible person' was totally unneccesary in the context of this thread. The fact still stands, whether you agree with it or not, that the things I referred to are the reasons why many people have reservations about Hughes as a person. The lad chose to describe him as 'terrible' - fine, we can say that his choice of words was OTT but we know what he meant and it is pointless asking him to justify it when all he is going to do is tell usn thigs we knew already - that Smith thought he was a snide and a snitch, that he taodied up to Thatcher and her chums etc etc etc. Somehow I've allowed you to succeed in dragging this thread away from Hughes the player. That would be a topic that there would be fairly unanimous agreement about and maybe it wouldn't satisfy your apparent need for an argument, but since that is what the thread was about then that will be the topic of my future posts herein. My favourite Hughes memory is simply how happy he looked in Rome in 1977.

No, f*** all to do with that, more a mix of the open secret that a number of his team mates didn't like him, his politics grating with probably the majority of the fans, even down to things like his embarrasing TV appearances. And yes, I know that all of those things could apply equally to other past players but that isn't the point. The point is that those are the reasons why Hughes is disliked by some and there is nothing to be said about this that people don't already know. The original comment about him being a 'terrible person' whilst possibly true, was uneccessary. But equally, there is no point asking him to justify that since it then takes the thread away from what it was meant to be about - Hughes the player. I know I've gone off topic, but only to ask that we stay on topic, if you see what I mean! More posts like the fyds please.

I think we all know the reasons why there are question marks for many people about Hughes as a person. People hardly need to explain themselves for referring to that, vecause it isn't as if there is anyhting new to add - though at the same time, people hardly need to go raking up his failings again every time there is a thread discussing his on-pitch merits. I'm too young to have seen Hughes, but have thought for a few years that, on the bais of what I've watched on video, heard, read, etc, that he is possibly the player whom Gerrard most closely resembles in many ways.

Thought this might happen when i heard about the England cricket team using it. You can guarantee the so-called 'Barmy Army' will be singing it Down Under this winter. Shame, hope it doesn't happen but could be inevitable now.

When are these things anything else? Completely pointless piece of programming. Maybe if people stopped watching them they'd stop making them.

24,000 people all trying to swap tickets on the day of the game? Whether it was open from morning or not, that would still be a f***ing logistical nightmare. And what about people who got their ticket of a mate/relative etc who can't go, and therefore don't have any ID. Bet there are a few hundred people at least in that boat. I know that strictly speaking that is tough as they have breached the terms and conditions of the ticket (which is non-transferable) but it would hardly solve the problem as it would just create a new set of victims. See that fat c*** at Cardiff is sounding off again too. 'Our name has been dragged through the mud. Liverpool should have reallocated the ballot tickets straight away, can't believe they didn't do this'. And some South Wales police fella saying how it would be carnage to have people competing for seats - 'I' m sure I don't need to remind Liverpool fans about the need for safety in stadiums'. Scanadlous - especially given that it would be a piece of piss to hold the rightful ticket owners in one area so they never actually encountered those in their seats. The problem is, and always has been, they are too cowardly to try and eject those in on stolen tickets, which they would have had to do if they had issued duplicates. Now they can just 'let sleeping dogs lie' and make a couple of token arrests. c****. They have achieved the impossible - made me glad that the finals will be back at Wembley in future.