DJS

Not sure that halfway through the season can really be called 'kneejerk'.

That's true to a point, but the squad that Rafa has at his disposal is clearly under achieving. You can say that the owners actions are limiting what Rafa can do and severely limiting our chances of a title challenge, but we certainly have a squad that's capable of finishing in the top four. Or are people suggesting that our squad is on par with the likes of Birmingham and that competing with them IS actually an accurate reflection of the level that our team/squad is at? Personally, i think that's not the case. I agree that we dont have enough to compete for the title, but we sure as hell do have enough to be in the top four - if managed properly.

Anyone can present an extreme case and rare scenario of things going horribly wrong, to argue why something shouldnt happen. In reality though, i suspect 90% or more of such operations go fine, without any problems. By your logic, players would only ever have surgery if their career is in jeopardy without it.

Pretty sure i'd heard three weeks. My concern is that them 'managing' it has resulted (and may continue to result) in a far less effective Torres than normal, and our margins for error are pretty tiny as it is. We need him back to something like his best ASAP and we need him to remain there for the rest of the season.

I recall a few weeks back, there was talk of Torres and the prospect of whether he would have/need surgery on his injury, and the notion that such surgery would likely solve the problem once and for all. I dunno how accurate these reports were, but assuming some kind of validity to them, would now not be an opportunity to get this sorted completely? I remember hearing that if he had the surgery, he'd be out for 3 weeks and then should return 'fully fit' with the problem fixed. I appreciate that there's never any guarantees, but assuming that the above is correct, i'd be inclined to get him under the knife now, with the intention of not having to face this problem again later in the season. There's been talk of the 'club v country' row as well, with Spain obviously wanting him fine for the World Cup. Fact is, since the decision was apparently taken to not send him for an op, with the theory being that he doesnt actually need it, he's not been sharp or anywhere near his best (obviously through no fault of his own). I said back around the time of the Lyon away game, that he should've had the surgery then - as there was an international break after the following game against Birmingham (which he didnt play anyway), so he would've only missed City at home and Debrecen away. As it was, he didnt have the operation then. But now, with the weather being what it is, the Spurs game obviously off, the Reading game possibly going the same way and with relatively 'easier' games at Stoke and Wolves to come, i think the time would be ideal now, for him to get this sorted. February's a big month for us, tough games and plenty of them too, with the Europa League starting then. We cant afford to have him crocked or relatively ineffective during that period. If he goes for the op now, and is out for 3 weeks, he'll be back by the end of the month (Bolton at home on 30th January) or at the very worst, for the next game after that - Everton on Feb 6th. Looking at the fixture list for January: 13th - Reading (h) 16th - Stoke (a) 26th - Wolves (a) 30th - Bolton (h) This is the ideal time to get this done, with minimal damage to our results.

But you can slag him off for making Bernard Mendy look like a hybrid of Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi.

Any mention of the fee for Dossena? How much we're getting, i mean.

Aside from the game itself, i've got train tickets booked and those feckers rarely need an excuse to down tools and grind everyone's travel plans to a standstill.

I'm sure Aurelio could do a decent enough job there for a few games, he's an established and experienced first teamer and fitness aside, pretty reliable IMO.

Not only in terms of ability, but players like Bellamy would have put up a fight today.

Where did you hear that? It's not my understanding.

I see that they're doing the draw for this round and the next round all in one go. At what point do the seedings no longer count? I know we can only get a seeded side for this round, but what about the one after? Can we get another unseeded side for the 'round of 16' ? What about country protection?

Best of luck with this lads.

A sh*tty hand, yes. But his hand is plenty good enough to be doing comfortably better than the likes of Villa and Spurs. I mean, even Birmingham are only 3 points behind us and Sunderland 4 points off with a game in hand. Stoke are only 4 behind us FFS. Our 'hand' isnt THAT rubbish and we're not making the most of it at all.

If today was 'not the right time to throw him on', then he shouldnt be on the bench. What if Lucas or Mascherano (or even Gerrard) had gone injured? Is Rafa seriously suggesting he picked 7 subs, but only 6 of them could have actually come on if needed? Just sounds silly. If someone's on the bench, they should be available whenever needed. If it's the wrong time for them to play, why put them on the bench at all?

I have to say, i loved the 2002 world cup mainly because i wasnt working at the time, and it was awesome to be down the pub at 7am watching games. The curtains would be drawn to keep the sunlight out and after a while you'd forget what time it was. Then at the end of the game, you'd pop outside and see people on their way to work in the bright sunshine...while you were living a life of leisure Brilliant.

I'm not sure that anyone is saying they dont WANT us to win it. But if it came down to us being in a close race for 4th and having a league game on the Sunday, i wouldnt be (for argument's sake) keen on risking a tired Torres or Gerrard on the Thursday night, for the Uefa Cup.

I wouldnt fancy it and i'm not saying we should ask or expect others to do it - but i still think there would be some who would

Maybe we should finish 7th so we can win the Intertoto Cup then. I agree with you about how sh*te it is, that finish 4th puts you in a better position than winning a cup competition. That IS how it is though unfortunately and my viewpoint is based on the realities of it, sadly.

I reckon in a crowd of 40k, you'd find 50 or more who wouldnt need to be asked.

Because he's won the title?

How is winning the Uefa Cup a route into the Champions League?