Damian_de

They do. If they score first that's it

and out of position - you just have to think how much poorer Agger looked out there. but he does look timid and has been rank so far tonight on a night we look like needing midfielders and fullback getting forward

Quite often work with portuguesers and get on really well, but they must be my least favourite nation to play against at football. Filthy cheating all the way!

Out of position but yeah, he's nervous I would say. Not seen anything yet from him to back up the calls on here to start him at CB and agree... the ref has had a brutal first half so far

He's not a very good player though, is he? he's a prospect who's not getting a chance at first team level - for some reason.

how do you know that, really?

Shall we sack Borrell off? Thought we were pissing that until Sama went off.

5 fingers as well

Best I've seen Suso this. Lovely feet, fantastic cross field pass to Sterling just before. Manc TV commentary is hilariously one-sided

A good player but they hugely overpaid for him, and now are using him as a target man when he has said throughout his career he likes to play in a 2, and not as the furthest forward.

If we get knocked out by these it will be the worst result in Europe for a loooong time. Plenty of time left in the tie, but we will need to improve a hell of a lot to get past the likes of Porto or Villareal in the later stages.

Has it f***.

Spurs = Leeds. A semi KO for them this year.

Well, if it is after the whistle has gone then it rightly doesn't count, otherwise you could wait until everyone went home and then sneak back on, score a few and win the match.

No one reckon van Persie was lucky to still be on the pitch after the deliberate hand off on Alves in the first half?

He played further up the pitch in that side than he did for us.

I presume they have seen Cardozo who is quite similar really

No you aren't. Didn't see much wrong with it myself.

Can't believe the timing of this article, FFS Luis.

Never get tired of seeing Bayern getting a stuffing edit: mockered it now

ie not 442 thanks for clearing that one up

Growing up as a kid in the 80s what I mainly remember is them having a ridiculously good record against us home and away, but we won the league anyway. A couple of stand out matches (ignoring the obvious recent 4-1 at theirs...) under GH - the FA Cup defeat at their place after we'd led for so long, and the first Murphy 1-0 win, it felt like I had waited a HUGE amount of time for that result, and the city centre was a joy that evening Oh... Anfield games. Yeah, David James.... and Paul Ince. That's a bitter-sweet memory, that one. It felt boss, and yet somehow a bit dirty.

I understand the inaccuracy in the terminology causing a bit of confusion here, but 4312 does not imply 3 deep central midfielders in the same role as the 2 in 4231, it really implies the use of a playmaker in the e.g. Rui Costa mould, with 3 central midfielders operating behind in a more functional role rather than sitting deep. Players like Rui Costa are undoubtedly going out of fashion, and the use of 2 deep midfielders by a lot of teams is a big reason for that. 4312 in this sense is hanging on in Serie A for historical reasons much more than it is in any of the other big leagues in Europe, and it is no surprise to see them struggling in Europe with a tactical system that is relatively out dated. It is, of course, much more complex than this

Beg to differ, although if you took barca in a 226 and pitted them against Marine in a 4231 (supposed modern formation) they'd obviously still win through the skill of the individuals. But formations do exist, and most people would agree with that (even Harry Redknapp), and they evolve to exploit the fine margins which can be overcome by exploiting the weaknesses in formations which are going out of fashion. Eventually they probably cycle around, and formations which were 'done' become useful again. In the case of the 4312 it struggles (as a general rule) against 4231 - why? Because the 1 is playing in a zone where the opponent has spare defensive players (and the 1 is the focus of the attacking threat), while the full backs are pushed back by the high wide attackers of the 3. So it loses focus and struggles for width. As a general rule. Original point stands.

Blimey, we can hardly even get an 11 out for this one