Wake up Liverpool fans!

[mooks]

Our club is on the brink of catastrophe and the window of opportunity for us to act is very small indeed.

 

WAKE UP LIVERPOOL FANS!

 

There are two factors that have prevented the sale of our club to either DIC or Sheikh Rashid:

 

1. The extortionate price our current owners are demanding

 

2. The obstinacy and arrogance of Tom Hicks

 

Last season when the extent of the crisis became evident there was talk about boycotting the games. This would undoubtedly have caused a rational actor like George Gillett to realise he would have to sell at a more reasonable price or sustain massive losses as a result of the boycott and fan protests. The danger was that Tom Hicks would dig in his heels even more ... "I'm not letting any god darned football supporters tell me what to do!"

 

There was a logical basis for waiting until the end of last season - when the supposed deadline on Hicks' veto of Gillett selling his shares to DIC expired - before taking more extreme action.

 

But that deadline has come and gone, Hicks is no longer making press statements every week, and all we're concerned about is the team's form in the last few games.

 

WAKE UP LIVERPOOL FANS!

 

There is something so much bigger at stake. The fact that the current ownership situation is completely dysfunctional should be alarming enough. But beyond that we have owners who lie to us and who are unwilling to put their own equity into the building of the new stadium that was the only reason for the takeover in the first place. And now we have a reputable poster saying he has seen plans for a groundshare!

 

Please, please, please do not wait until a groundshare is officially confirmed before taking action. We have seen enough already to know that there is no trust between Gillett and Hicks, neither is willing to put their own resources at stake for the benefit of the other, they are not able to borrow the money to build a new stadium, and even if they were able to borrow the money, the interest rates would be crippling (to add on to the £30 million annual interest the club is paying now for the takeover loans).

 

We saw this week how close we were to losing our "guaranteed" Champions League revenue.

 

We are even closer to the brink of a financial meltdown at the club under the current owners.

 

WAKE UP LIVERPOOL FANS!

 

We needed investment in 2006 for the club to go to the next level. Now we need investment to save our skins.

 

The only realistic option (sorry, Share Liverpool, you're not going to buy the club let alone get a new stadium built) is for a deep pockets investor to take us over. We have one waiting in the wings - but for how long?

 

Spirit of Shankly have released a statement demanding the current owners leave. They left out one small detail however ... what they (we) will do if Gillett and Hicks do not leave.

 

I believe it is time to take Hicks on head on. We run great risks by doing so but even greater risks by taking a more apathetic approach.

 

We need to let Thomas O. Hicks know that he has two options: sell to DIC at a reasonable price or watch the value of his prized asset plummet.

 

I know the threat of boycotts didn't work for Man Utd and the Glazers but that was a different situation. We can't give up without a fight. If we wait until next season or the season after it may be too late.

 

Thanks for reading and apologies to Rep. Dennis Kucinich.

[smicer07]

SOS forum?

[anfield]

We need to form a new fans union. Lets call it POP....Pride of Paisley! Whos with me!!!!

[Archangel]

Sorry about this but I dont quite see the logic here

 

On one hand you say the major reason for getting rid of the owners is they are taking us towards financial meltdown and your solution to this is to encourage a boycott which could possibly precipitate .... a financial meltdown

 

Have I strayed into a parallel universe by mistake

 

This kind of arguement has potentially serious consequences which could damage the club whilst the owners would just sod off onto their next project

 

Have SOS thought this one through

[gkmacca]

I thought this was widely known. Especially on here.

[Kahnee]

We need to form a new fans union. Lets call it POP....Pride of Paisley! Whos with me!!!!

 

UNBELIEVER

 

The Double Ds (Dalglish's Darlings) is where it's at.

 

(Wolf nipple chips, get 'em while they're hot...)

[mooks]

Sorry about this but I dont quite see the logic here

 

On one hand you say the major reason for getting rid of the owners is they are taking us towards financial meltdown and your solution to this is to encourage a boycott which could possibly precipitate .... a financial meltdown

 

Have I strayed into a parallel universe by mistake

 

This kind of arguement has potentially serious consequences which could damage the club whilst the owners would just sod off onto their next project

 

Have SOS thought this one through

Would they? Is your crystal ball clearer than mine?

 

We're venturing into unknown territory here. Obviously we would want to force them to sell, not to keep ownership of the club in those circumstances while "sodding off onto their next project" oblivious to our demise.

 

And my point is eminently logical - we have nothing to lose by boycotting the games since the club is already on the path to financial meltdown and that won't change unless there is a change of ownership.

[Gunga Din]

Would they? Is your crystal ball clearer than mine?

 

We're venturing into unknown territory here. Obviously we would want to force them to sell, not to keep ownership of the club in those circumstances while "sodding off onto their next project" oblivious to our demise.

 

And my point is eminently logical - we have nothing to lose by boycotting the games since the club is already on the path to financial meltdown and that won't change unless there is a change of ownership.

 

 

the problem with boycotting is most of the tickets have been pre sold to season ticket holders so wont financially inpact the club. Also, the sheer numbers of fans will mean the tickets will likely just get sold. There is no way to force these two out, unless you count assasination as a way to do it. the credit markets will hopefully be the catalyst that will lush them out, but, if whoever buys the club borrows to buy it, we will be worse off than we are now.

[Flight]

This kind of arguement has potentially serious consequences which could damage the club whilst the owners would just sod off onto their next project

 

Potentially serious consequences ??

 

 

The Americans ownership up to this point has had extremely serious consequences. It can and IT WILL get much worse.This is following exactly the pattern of Hicks involvement in other sports. Bit by bit he will chip away at what makes us special. We can consider our best players to be disposable assets.

 

 

The ONLY thing that matters about us to Hicks is that we make enough money to pay the £30mill a year interest on the loans. He does not need us to be succesful to achieve that.

 

 

The OP is right - all of us need to wake up. It will continue to get worse, while all the arguments about how hicks needs us to be succesful will be eroded.

 

 

 

 

Is your advice that we should do nothing and accept whatever they decide to do with us ?

[Cam]

2. The obstinacy and arrogance of Tom Hicks

SiGn PhIlAnThRoPiC, cOmMuNiTy-SpIrItEd, NiCe OwNeRs!

 

What of the growing evidence that suggests it's Gillet and Parry that are the feckers driving the club towards doom?

 

That's the issue... we don't know what's going on and who the big bad guy is. All we can do is a) support the team and b) let the entire hierarchy know they've a fight on their hands.

[surf]

/snip:

 

The ONLY thing that matters about us to Hicks is that we make enough money to pay the £30mill a year interest on the loans. He does not need us to be succesful to achieve that.

 

This is the major issue.

 

G&H have no ambitions for the club. The ambitions they have are to pay the loans and make a small profit. They do not need us to win the league or win the CL. They're content with finishing 4th each year as that's all they need to get a return on their investment, as Gunga Din says, season tickets have been payed for. As Hicks has said (i believe about his Texas Rangers fans) "they'll turn up anyway", or something along those lines.

 

Our owners have no on-the-pitch ambitions. We need to get rid of them as soon as possible. They've got control of the club by promising success and by promising to build the best stadium in the world. They're cheats and liars.

 

99% of the fans want the same thing: to get rid of G&H. There's no unity, no shared idea and no vision. I hope SOS will step up and show some leadership, be it by organising protests, boycotting merchandise, spreading the word through the press, or however they believe fans can get involved to get the yanks out of the club. The time is now.

[mooks]

the problem with boycotting is most of the tickets have been pre sold to season ticket holders so wont financially inpact the club. Also, the sheer numbers of fans will mean the tickets will likely just get sold. There is no way to force these two out, unless you count assasination as a way to do it. the credit markets will hopefully be the catalyst that will lush them out, but, if whoever buys the club borrows to buy it, we will be worse off than we are now.

Your first point is a good one. Season tickets have already been renewed and it is a big ask for fans to not go to a game they have already paid for (as well as not affecting the owners financially). What I suggest is boycotting home Champions League matches in the group stage.

 

Your second point - you may well be right but why be so pessimistic from the start? We have sustained a boycott of a certain newspaper for almost 20 years now. It won't be easy but it CAN happen.

 

And your third point - that is precisely why Gillett and Hicks need not only to sell but to sell the club for something approaching its true value. Not being an expert on this I can only guess the value has gone down under their stewardship ... the new TV deal has certainly helped but our debts have skyrocketed and our new stadium is going to be more expensive than it was when they took over.

[mooks]

SiGn PhIlAnThRoPiC, cOmMuNiTy-SpIrItEd, NiCe OwNeRs!

 

What of the growing evidence that suggests it's Gillet and Parry that are the feckers driving the club towards doom?

 

That's the issue... we don't know what's going on and who the big bad guy is. All we can do is a) support the team and b) let the entire hierarchy know they've a fight on their hands.

It is common knowledge that Gillett wanted to sell and Hicks prevented him.

 

One is a rational actor and one is not.

[surf]

And your third point - that is precisely why Gillett and Hicks need not only to sell but to sell the club for something approaching its true value. Not being an expert on this I can only guess the value has gone down under their stewardship ... the new TV deal has certainly helped but our debts have skyrocketed and our new stadium is going to be more expensive than it was when they took over.

 

They bought the club for a snip. Even with their mismanagement, wasted loan bills and rising construction costs i still see them making a tidy profit if they sold now. We're potentially worth what the Mancs are worth, i.e. 800-900m. To achieve that value we need to build a 75k stadium at a cost of 300-400m (???), valuing the club without the new stadium at 400-600m. Grossly oversimplified, but they'll can sell and still make money.

[surf]

How about waving Obama's "Change" signs?

[Gunga Din]

Your first point is a good one. Season tickets have already been renewed and it is a big ask for fans to not go to a game they have already paid for (as well as not affecting the owners financially). What I suggest is boycotting home Champions League matches in the group stage.

 

Your second point - you may well be right but why be so pessimistic from the start? We have sustained a boycott of a certain newspaper for almost 20 years now. It won't be easy but it CAN happen.

 

And your third point - that is precisely why Gillett and Hicks need not only to sell but to sell the club for something approaching its true value. Not being an expert on this I can only guess the value has gone down under their stewardship ... the new TV deal has certainly helped but our debts have skyrocketed and our new stadium is going to be more expensive than it was when they took over.

 

 

ok, on the first point, if you dont buy a ticket for the opening cl game, yet other people do, and we get to the final, we'll miss out. plus most season ticket holders have an auto ticket scheme so the money comes straight out of our bank account, and will mean we wont get auto tickets for the next rounds, meaning it will be a right pain in the a***.

 

the second point, i'm not being pessimistic, i'm being realistic. there is a huge difference. we might all boycott a newspaper, but you still see it in all the shops in Liverpool. yes, it hurts the S*n financially, but di we really want to make our finances any worse?

 

your 3rd point although noble is a non starter. they will sell to the highest bidder. they wont give a toss where the monet comes from to buy it, they just care about making the most possible. thinking they will do anything else is daft, thats why i have always been more concerned about any new owners than i am about these 2. we might be in debt now, but we could end up in huge debt when we are next sold

[mooks]

They bought the club for a snip. Even with their mismanagement, wasted loan bills and rising construction costs i still see them making a tidy profit if they sold now. We're potentially worth what the Mancs are worth, i.e. 800-900m. To achieve that value we need to build a 75k stadium at a cost of 300-400m (???), valuing the club without the new stadium at 400-600m. Grossly oversimplified, but they'll can sell and still make money.

Right - and who is in the market to buy Liverpool Football Club? A grand total of two potential buyers - the quixotic, romantic Share Liverpool that have scores of "commitments" from fans to invest £5000 and DIC/Sheikh Rashid who are not prepared to pay anything like that amount.

 

And I have no idea how you conclude G & H "bought the club for a snip". DIC and Steve Morgan both valued the club at less. And that was after extensive due diligence.

[surf]

Right - and who is in the market to buy Liverpool Football Club? A grand total of two potential buyers - the quixotic, romantic Share Liverpool that have scores of "commitments" from fans to invest £5000 and DIC/Sheikh Rashid who are not prepared to pay anything like that amount.

Just cause potential buyers haven't presented themselves in the press doesn't mean no one's interested.

 

And I have no idea how you conclude G & H "bought the club for a snip".

That's cause you're a twit.

 

DIC and Steve Morgan both valued the club at less. And that was after extensive due diligence.

 

DIC offered to buy the club from G&H and give them a reported £50m profit, that was turned down. Current valuations of the club are way above what G&H paid.

[mooks]

DIC offered to buy the club from G&H and give them a reported £50m profit, that was turned down. Current valuations of the club are way above what G&H paid.

Could you point this twit in the direction of these current valuations of Liverpool Football Club?

[Cam]

It is common knowledge that Gillett wanted to sell and Hicks prevented him.

But why is 'making a quick buck' suddenly "the right thing to do"?

 

I'm not saying Hicks was thinking "no, I love this club and what it needs now is stability and I don't really trust DiC as caretakers of this great institution" (far fecking from it) but were Gillet's reasons as simple as "yes, the fans are right; I've failed them. Now I want to pass the torch on to better people, people who can make their dreams come true."?

 

We don't know. What we do know is they're as bad as each other.

 

I thought what was common knowledge was that Gillet WAS interested in selling but a) Hicks blocked it and b) the price (profit!) wasn't high enough anyway.

[CaptainXabi]

Could you point this twit in the direction of these current valuations of Liverpool Football Club?

We're apparently worth a cool 500 million

[surf]

Could you point this twit in the direction of these current valuations of Liverpool Football Club?

 

It's not easy to determine the exact figure of a club, as it's not like a carton of milk from asda that has a price tag stamped on it. Best guess is looking at offers made/turned down, seeing what other clubs are worth, benchmarking studies and basic common sense.

 

The Glazers paid 800m for United.

Hicks has valued Liverpool at 1bn (after a new stadium is built).

DIC offered 400m (without the new stadium) which was turned down

Or was it 500m? (link)

BBDO value us at over 500m (link)

As do Forbes (link)

 

All more than the measly 220m or so G&H paid.

[Archangel]

Potentially serious consequences ??

The Americans ownership up to this point has had extremely serious consequences. It can and IT WILL get much worse.This is following exactly the pattern of Hicks involvement in other sports. Bit by bit he will chip away at what makes us special. We can consider our best players to be disposable assets.

The ONLY thing that matters about us to Hicks is that we make enough money to pay the £30mill a year interest on the loans. He does not need us to be succesful to achieve that.

The OP is right - all of us need to wake up. It will continue to get worse, while all the arguments about how hicks needs us to be succesful will be eroded.

Is your advice that we should do nothing and accept whatever they decide to do with us ?

 

I'll be blunt, the premise is absolutely insane, the only thing that prevents me from going totally stratospheric on this particular one is the knowledge that a mass boycott would be difficult to get off the ground and If doing nothing means not slitting your throat then yes quite possibly that is a better option.

 

To be honest I've tolerated a whole load of your spin and paranoid crap about hicks spies and the like, even at times thought it funny to think of grown business men around a table planting people on internet forums to spread the Yankees message but this goes a step too far

 

Go ed have your f***ing boycott, if the yanks dont care about the club do you think they'll be that bothered, or do you not think they'll just tighten the noose even more around the managers transfer budget to compensate. Whats to stop them selling a few players into the bargain eh - we could be in for months even years of attrition

 

And once you've finished and you've got your way and the americans have gone, do you really think we can just switch those income streams back on like a flick of a switch, do you really believe that serious businessmen will risk huge investment in a club thats demonstrated an inate ability to turn on itself. Perhaps they'll understand the reason but it'll be one huge leap of faith for them to take on board such a fanbase prepared to rip into its management because of a perceived series of emotional grievances and unrealistic financial expectations

 

With the stadium build junked you've got your chance, you go for it boy, but if you guys miscalculate and screw this one up the club you and I love so much will f***in suffer more damage than the americans could ever do for years. I dont understand this SOS thing maybe its a good thing maybe bad I cant decide but if this is a route they take then its lunacy

 

And before I get accused of sympathising with those two as that seems to be the level of debate let me say this, I loave them, i loave the whole money thing and the way its f***ed up this sport, its killed a whole lot of dreams for me. I'll always support the club whoever owns it as I have for many years and if I feel that anyone is threatening it whether through malice greed or just plain misplaced ideal I'll speak my mind regardless

 

Do you know what, I'll buy the kit for my kid when its his birthday and I'll visit the shop when I'm up there because for me its about the club, actually nothing else matters

 

 

YNWA

[Mike]

loave?

 

is that love, loathe or both at the same time?

 

its a new word, i like it.

[hideNseek]

And before I get accused of sympathising with those two as that seems to be the level of debate let me say this, I loave them, i loave the whole money thing and the way its f***ed up this sport, its killed a whole lot of dreams for me. I'll always support the club whoever owns it as I have for many years and if I feel that anyone is threatening it whether through malice greed or just plain misplaced ideal I'll speak my mind regardless

 

So you loathe them, how would you go about getting rid then?