Gerrards reputation has gone sky high

[Guest Makaveli Smith]

I think it's all down to the champions league final but Gerrard has gone from a player who we (in the area of Ireland and england) all thought was one of the best midfielders in the world to a player who is now finally known throughout the world as being one of the best players the planet has to offer.

 

For the first time ever i saw something on tv saying that englands hopes of winning the world cup are resting on gerrards shoulders. Talk like that coupled with what the brasilian manager has been saying has a more positive effect on the club than you might think. Sure there are plenty of people who say they dont care how england do and that all they really want is for gerrard and the others to come through the world cup cleanly... of course we all want them to come through without any injuries but I have to say.. even though my country aren't in the world cup (Ireland), I'm really looking forward to it. I will go further by saying that I actually hope England can win it.

 

I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this but most people in Ireland won't be going for england ;p even the liverpool 'supports' out there... However I myself am hoping that Gerrard blows the world away with some fantastic performances. I just want the world to feel the very same sense of awe that he sometimes inspires.

 

Not to mention that if his name continues to grow, then so will liverpools.. and the best players want to play with the best players...

 

make us proud Steven

[Spike]

best player in the squad, and one of the best players going to the tournament. However he will be sacrificed from his natural game to accomodate a far more limited player.

 

This team should be built around him imo.

[Stanley Leisure]

Who?

[Guest TanMan]

best player in the squad, and one of the best players going to the tournament. However he will be sacrificed from his natural game to accomodate a far more limited player.

 

This team should be built around him imo.

 

Spot on. Looked very quiet today playing behind Lampard. Was given 8 minutes to play alongside Carrick which wasn't enough. The biggest fault Gerrard and Carra have is their versatility. Gerrard can play anywhere across midfield and so will be utilised as such. Lampard can ONLY play as an attack minded central midfielder and so will be employed as such. This means that Lampard will never be asked to fulfill a different role. If Lampard was as versatile we could possibly see the best of Gerrard but sadly we won't. The only way we will see Gerrard in an attacking role is if Owen breaks down and we need a 2nd man up front and Carrick is used alongside Lampard.

 

What annoys me is that this should be regarded as a compliment to Gerrard but the England numpties believe it's confirmation that Lampard is better than Gerrard.

Edited June 3, 2006 by TanMan

[quibs]

Just hope Gerrard has a fantastic world cup, not bothered about England, just want our Liverpool players to do well.. Scoring in the final to make Engalnd win it then he'll do the unthinkable of scoring in every final possible..

 

Really feel sorry for him that he cant play in the position that makes him the player he is.. Instead he has to baby sit for Fat Frank..

Edited June 3, 2006 by quibs

[R A Softlad]

However he will be sacrificed from his natural game to accomodate a far more limited player.

 

 

Sadly correct.

[Guz]

England dont have anyone else good enough to displace Beckham, Gerrard or Lampard. Gerrard sitting deeper is the only option. Stevie is fantastic but he is also good enough to play the role and against lesser teams shouldn't have a problem.

[G Richards]

Gerrard is 10/10 as a midfielder given licensse to maraud forward. Lampard is 8/10 (or 9/10 if you are being generous). The point is, Stevie is better in this role.

 

It all falls down because Lampard can't do the holding role. He is probably a 6/10 at that, whereas Stevie is an 8/10.

 

Carrick can do the holding role, but he is probably a 7/10 at that.

 

Erickson's problem is that he will shy away from making a big and bold decision. He should drop Lampard and replace him with Carrick, who's job will be to sit back while Gerrard does his stuff.

 

That's the only way Erickson will have one of the world's best players playing to his strengths. It seems to me that you might need that if you want to win a World Cup!

 

Instead, we'll have more routine performances from Stevie due to the limitations of his midfield partner, as has already been pointed out.

 

It's a recipe for continued frustration and a quarter final exit.

[Ginu]

Yes, and they didn't get out of their group

 

that's because Veron is an idiot lol my point is the top teams make these decisions

[Guz]

'Are there any better holding midfield players than Gerrard'?

 

From what I've seen I'd say teh answer to that is no. Unless I'm badly mistaken, Parker for Charlton was given the kind of freedom that Gerrard is often given. He was a box-box player who played alongside Matt Holland I think? Even the few times he played for Chelsea he always seemed to play with Makelele in the side. The kind of role Essien seems to play now. Carrick seems more like a Xabi type player trying to dictate the game from a deeper role. I'm not sure how he plays for Spurs but everytime I see him he has a lot more freedom than a traditional defensive midfielder would do. His role always strikes me a bit like Beckham playing the deeper role - a good range of passing but if asked to just sit in front of the back four - probably wouldnt be able to do it at such a high level. Again, I might have got this badly wrong. The underlying problem is that both are so good at club level and there seems to be a lack of serious competition for their places in the england side.

 

Stevie should be good enough to play a deeper role. And to be honest, I dont think he has done anything for England to warrant him being picked ahead of Lampard anyway. I'd place him alongside Terry as someone who doesnt replicate his club form. I dont buy into this out of position malarky (except when he was playing on the left !) given that he is such a talented player and played a whole season out on the right wing. As far as I'm concerned Stevie is a totally different player for Liverpool as he is for England. He has benefited this season from having Momo who is tireless in his running and Xabi who keeps the ball so well in the side, just like Lampard benefits from Makelele's reading of the game and Essien's energy.

 

The biggest mistake Sven made, however, was not looking at other options more extensivley in friendlies. The one time he did it they got beaten by Australia after the team changed at half time. Subtle changes to see how players like Carrick would fare in the england team would be more beneficial than playing a B team.

[CaptainXabi]

Drop Beckham for who? And why Lampard? hes performed better than Gerrard has for england under Sven. Stevie has been the biggest under performer in the england side for the past 5 years or so given what he has done for liverpool. And neville is still the best english right back in the country.

Regarding Gerrard's performances, don't you think being played as holding midfielder often is linked to being an underperformer? Seems like a cause and effect to me.

[Guy_Incognito]

I always wonder what the players and fans abroad think when, after watching the EC and FA Cup final, and the chaos that Gerrard caused in those games, they then see England and he's sitting back behind Lampard and curbing his instincts to run rampage. Those players who played for Milan must be loving it.

 

When Barca scored their second against Arsenal, one of my mates - who doesn't support any team and was wanting Arsenal to win - said to me "The problem is, they don't have Gerrard". Lampard doesn't have that affect, and Gerrard's not gonna be able to from the holding role.

 

Cos he's not playing the same role for England as he does for us, he seems a lot more subdued and that makes people say that he doesn't play well for England, whereas before Lampard was playing for England, Gerrard was the main midfielder, and England didn't lose with him in the team for ages when he played.

 

Edit - a complete mish mash of points there. Sorry about that.

Edited June 4, 2006 by Guy_Incognito

[Guz]

Regarding Gerrard's performances, don't you think being played as holding midfielder often is linked to being an underperformer? Seems like a cause and effect to me.

 

If it were any other player in the england side then yes, but not Gerrard. He is a central midfielder, he has the ability to play a deeper role and is the best option in my opinion because there isnt a single other player in england qualified to do the same job better than Gerrard. King comes closest but he's still a central defender, same goes for Carra. Not convinced by Parker or Carrick as pure defensive midfielders - i think england would still have the same problem, then there's Owen hargreaves...nuff said on him. Gerrard's just played a whole season out on the right wing after all and that's a tougher job imo and requires the same amount of discipline (staying wide, being an outlet ball, supporting the RB). Against better teams Gerrard will struggle with the role but even against the lesser opposition he just looks a totally different player to the one we see in a red shirt every week.

 

I had a lot of sympathy when he was forced to play out on the left wing because that was just ridiculous. But a right footed central midfielder playing on the left is different to a box-to-box midfielder being asked to be more defensive.

[_00_deathscar]

He's not just asked to be 'more defensive' though - he's actually told to stay back; because for some reason Lampard or Sven (not sure who) refuse to grasp the idea of those two switching roles during a game - i.e. one bombs forward one stays back.

[Lee W]

As long as he does the business for us, who cares about England.

[lawrie]

As long as he does the business for us, who cares about England.

 

I do

[Marvin]

As long as he does the business for us, who cares about England.

 

 

 

Gerrard does. He wants to show what he can do on the world stage in an England shirt, and because he isa Liverpool player so do I.

[Spike]

As long as he does the business for us, who cares about England.

 

I agree with the sentiments though not the statement. Lampard came second in the world player of the year last year when Stevie, as an individual, did so much more as far as contribution to the team is concerned.

 

I hate to see Stevie play second fiddle to Lampard and be 'punished' and unfairly scrutinised because of a desire to fit a more limited player into the system.

 

Lampard will be made to look better because of Stevie and this perception will not be reciprocated.

[Rimbeux]

I think it's a hobby horse and a myth that Gerrard hasn't showed for England, as much as it is that Lampard has. If it's about doing the job of a midfield player to international competence, nothing wrong with either. if it's about producing the same level of performance for country and club, then it is positional, and is about what you expect from a player playing that position.

 

I remember when Gerrard would get rave reviews for England in his early days, when he reprised the same midfield hardman role he did for Liverpool in his early days, which was about passing vision, covering ground, tough tackilng, and dominating the centre ground, and the occassional shot from distance.

 

Since he's moved forward for club, the questions have started about reproducing, when he has still not moved position for country, and Euro 2004 apart, still puts in the same kind of performances that he did in his early days in that position, the level oof perfomance and lack of highlights the position requires. It may be simplistic, but it's true, you can't get there from here

[Guest Makaveli Smith]

What annoys me is that this should be regarded as a compliment to Gerrard but the England numpties believe it's confirmation that Lampard is better than Gerrard.

 

I don't think many do believe that lampard is the better player anymore. Compare that to a year ago...

[mickdundee]

Beckham

 

Gerrard Lampard J. Cole

 

Is what i would do.

[Greenoak]

But the problem is not just a Gerrard v Lampshade one.

 

The real problem is Engalnd has 4 centre midfielders in

 

Becks lamps diver cole and Gerrard.

 

Gerrard is the only one who can defend. Beckham and cole always move inwards rather than upwards hence the midfield is so cramped there is no need of gerrard adding to the confusion.

 

I dont think Gerrard is told to be the holding midfielder as such it is just that the other 3 cannot and will not do it.

 

The only time Gerrard can go forward is when Beckham went to and Lennon who stays on the right leaving room for gerrard to play a more advanced role.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He's tried that against NI I think, and it was horrible.

 

Beckham can't tackle, isn't mobile enough, and hasn't quick enough feet to play that role.

 

Not only are his feet not fast enough - his mind ain't either.

RM soon dropped the Beckham in the centre experiment - leave him doing what he is actually quite good at, dead ball crosses & the occational cross from the right in open play. To expect anything more from him is unfairly raising expectations.

 

Anyway - Gerrard for rightback

[_00_deathscar]

Except Beckham has more talent than Lampard could dream to have, but Lampard has make far greater use of his talent than Beckham could dream of.

 

Hope that's clear.

[Guest Kaizer]

Its not easy to compare players up against each other, but Gerrard will figure in my top 3 list of CM(box to box type midfielders) in the world.

M.Ballack is the only CM in the world who is on the same level as Gerrard in such a role.