RedHarvest

These are the real points to be debated. Gerrards substitution is an emotionally charged red herring issue.

This Gerrard substitution is a non story and we shouldn't rise to the media bait..or to the incendiary opinions of some posters. We should have wrapped up the game well before this became an issue but, bizarrely, our luck continues despite our continuing failure to kill off the teams we're better than. The real question is - what's going on with Rafa to cause his trusted no2 to leave and for the team to be playing so abjectly in recent games? It's not Rafa versus Steven Gerrard it's what is best for Liverpool FC. What's best is the right players, the right atmosphere within the squad, support from the owners - everything we need to win the title. I'm not entirely convinced all is well at the club but I don't think the issue revolves around Gerrards relationship with Rafa.

He seems like a broken player, cant get his touch or confidence back. He's definitely better than that and I'd love to see him back at his destructive and athletic best.

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Jesus, he's taking a hammering here! All deserved. He's just not good enough for us,,hasn't been for at least two seasons. He's persisted on the left for so long because Rafa has failed to upgrade both LB and LM.

I believed at the start of the season that with the squad we had (including a fit Xabi and Agger) we could win it...apart from the lack of cover at CB I still believe it. Since Derby we've displayed a mystifying lack of belief and togetherness as a team. There's something wrong behind the scenes, there must be. Rotation and Rafa will take the blame as usual. Im not writing us off yet because it's early and we have the talent.

I havn't seen the match today but there's no doubt we can win the title with the squad we have,,but it's obvious there's something very wrong if the players are not performing and showing such little confidence. Regardless of the rotation argument the buck still stops with Rafa. Just hope to f*** we get it sorted fast. There's still time.

Sign Elano

Emre scores Newc 2 Everton 1

Heerenven 9 Heracles 0 in the dutch league Alves bagged 7, Storm got the brace

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Spot on. Marseilles got thier tactics right playing a high tempo pressing game and we failed to respond.

Anelka would probably be a good deal cheaper than Ashton. I'd take him, he's quality.

Im not saying it's not a contributing factor but its simplistic and easy to blame rotation. Fact is Rafa is unapolagetic about his belief in the system. Either he comes out and admits he's wrong about his policy , which wont happen, or there's something else or a combination of other factors causing the slump, which I think is far more likely.

Rotation is never mentioned when we're winning. The fact is we're in a slump which, luckily, our league position belies. My main point is that the issue being debated is a serious dip in the bulk of our regular players form and it's too easy to point to rotation as the sole cause as most papers and pundits are happy to do.

true. You know things are bad if both him and Gerrard are not performing.

There's an argument for Reina too,,but I agree, it's weird and makes you suspect that somethings wrong behind the scenes.

I also said that the rotation argument doesent take into account the inexplicable reason for so many key players not performing recently. I'm hoping it's a blip that will be sorted and I still believe that Rafa can win us the title. I think it's too easy to blame rotation for our recent abject form and that other factors unknown are part of the problem.

What's your point? He obviously believes in the system and will stick to it regardless of the amount of points you need to win the league.

It's not rotation. Rafa has rotated his teams 2 Spanish titles, the UEFA cup and the European cup. It's something else within the club - a malaise, possibly precipitated by Pako A's departure. Whatever it is something has to be at the root of so many key players not performing. Dont let rotation become the stick which people are going to use to beat Rafa out of a job,,that's what the papers will do. The fans should know better.

Apart from Leto I had no worries about the team he picked. It turned out to be a double whammy of the bulk of our players having shockers and Marseille admirably taking the game to us, playing high tempo positive football. Given our recent form, league position notwithstanding, a bad defeat was on the cards.

It was inexplicably bad from Momo, but the fault has to be Rafas..I can see the thinking behind leaving him on the field to play through his confidence crisis but its yet another gamble that hasn't paid off for Rafa