Saintslfc13

He had a good game, played the masch role well and had some good passes, almost had a goal as well. I do think he fouled a little too much but it was probably what was asked of him and he wasn't getting carded for it so why not?

I agree he played well, have a feeling we might see Aurelio come back for Bolton though, as much as I'd like him to play.

Do you honestly think Barry is among the top 5 cm's in the world?

I can see where you're coming from but I don't feel we're slowing his career whatsoever. He's at one of the biggest clubs in the world, 21 years old and part of the 1st team squad. I know most of us think of him as fourth choice but it's not that simple with Rafa is it? In many instances Rafa prefers Lucas to Masch or Alonso, and we've even seen him replace Stevie once when Gerrard was our best player on the pitch at the time. If the plan was to go 4-3-2-1 as many think it was when we were after Barry then he surely would have been on the right of the three as we had to sell Alonso to be able to buy Barry (thank Christ we didn't). 3 months of weight training, running, and sprinting will improve a players stamina, acceleration, speed, and power significantly. I do agree that once mental problems are found they can be overcome FAR faster with the right person, but the thing is, the lot of people don't feel they have a problem. In Babel's case, he thinks Rafa is the stubborn one and that everything will be fine when he gets a run of games up front. You mentioned it finally clicking with Ronaldo at the Mancs, but it took him about 2 years (seasons) to finally understand that showboating doesn't get you anywhere in football. I'd say 2 years is A LOT longer than 3 months. Also in response to your more recent post. Cheyrou never looked like Zidane whatsoever, and Cisse doesn't have the attitude to be the next Henry, nor the ball control although that could be worked on. Lucas HAS all the intangibles to be successful here he just needs a bit more strength and speed. I'd his ball control/dribbling ability could even be better than Gerrard's in the long term. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he WILL set the world alight but he has enough potential and youth at this point that we could gamble on him for another season or two before we try to sell him at 24 if he isn't good enough for us. I have no doubt he'll continue playing for Brazil, so we don't have to worry about his value dropping much if at all.

So can every defender in the prem which is why he's been ineffective more often than not this season. He did great against United, other than that he's looked the same as last season, flashes of brilliance but too much predictability, not enough confidence in his left and a desire to shoot rather than work for the team. I have no doubt Babel could develop into a great winger if he would become more two dimensional. As it is he'd rather moan about not being played upfront and try to get loaned back to Ajax where the coaching staff will sing him praises rather than tell him to improve in the areas his game lacks. I agree at this point in time, Lucas like many brazilian is more suited to the Italian or Spanish league. However he has shown a desire to succeed at Liverpool, and has improved in the areas he needs to. He is only 21 and has at least 2 more years before we should even think about moving him on. The things Lucas lacks can be improved through hardwork and strength training/sprinting. The things Babel needs improve have to deal with his attitude and footballing brain. It is my opinion that it's far easier to improve the physical side of one's game than the mental.

I can't agree more. If Lucas was scouse a lot more people would be very content with his performances and talk about how he will be in years to come. As he's Brazilian I think people expect more flair and tricks from him, when he was billed as the brazilian gerrard on his way here. He isn't very flashy but is great at a lot of things, I have no doubt he will come good with time and chances. He has significantly improved his strength and speed of decision making this season compared with last. What's amazing is people want to give Babel a run of games who has looked exactly the same as last season if not worse, but are trying to move Lucas on when he's actually improved.

Assuming Alonso left then it would have been lucas by default, no brainer really. Regarding Henry, he could play on the left or the right as well as upfront with Torres. I think they'd complement eachother perfectly really. Henry has good ball control and can create for himself, his pace isn't what it used to be but he's still FAR superior to Keane in almost every aspect. Not to mention his attitude has never been a bad one. The main reason 442 is our weakest formation is our lack of a quality 2nd striker (Keane HAS quality but has yet to show it) and a decent right winger for that formation (Kuyt is great but he shouldn't be the RM in that formation, he's much better in the 4231 or a 343/433)

Fair enough and you have a point, but it tends to work better against a packed defense when the opposition doesn't expect him to do it. Riera regularly keeps our width and so he drew Hull defenders out to meet him there and therefore he cut in to the space provided when they started anticipating his moves. This is something those with a footballing brain do. Babel on the other hand cuts in relentlessly even when the outside is wide open for him to skin his man and whip in the cross. I personally think it has to do with a lack of confidence in his left foot but whatever it is that predictability will NOT open a packed defense for us or anyone for that matter. I do however think he could be used as a striker in that situation just to challenge the defense with his pace and we all know he has a powerful shot on him from far.

I agree with all but the Agger comment. I don't see why Rafa wouldn't trust him, I do however feel he is second choice to Skrtel when both are match fit but other than that I can't see any sign of distrust. Agger hasn't been back to his best lately but he's been out for ages and hopefully we'll see him playing better in the upcoming games. I think it has to do with Rafa not trying to force him back into form and letting him come back at his own pace, besides we all if he plays Agger and the man commits a Howler then Rafa will be getting stick for not giving the proven vet Sami his go. As far as the other two, they've both let him down at times in both attitude and play, so there is good reason for Rafa to be reluctant to give them a shot.

I think the main reasons for Babel's failure to start many games are easily explicable. For one the kid has a poor attitude at times and has spoken to the press about not playing up front one too many times. Next, we have the fact that he seems to tire fairly quickly which is a huge problem for him because he's not the cleverest of footballers is he? If his pace fails him then a huge chunk of his game is missing, maybe the kid spends too much time writing raps and not thinking about what he could do with the football I don't know. Then you take into the fact that he doesn't track back anywhere near the amount Rafa likes and fails to keep any real width and you start asking yourself is this kid interested in playing for Rafa or does he intend to play his game regardless of team tactics. Babel has his moments of brilliance but as we all know from the players if you leave something open while trying this brilliant idea Rafa is going to be the first one to slag you off and tell you that you messed up even though you might have got the goal, assist, etc. Perhaps Babel doesn't respond to this type of criticism maybe he simply isn't mature enough to deal with the way Rafa does things and to play his role for the team rather than freelance his own way. I'm taking classes and training to become a firefighter here in California and something they warns us about all the time is freelancing. When people freelance they or their fellow firefighters, sometimes both, tend to die. Same in football, when a member of the side does his own thing they often end up running into areas other should be thus providing themselves with less options, which ultimately ends up in a low percentage shot or loss of possession. If we then lose possession they're out of position and unless they're a runner like Kuyt, Stevie, and Masch, they aren't going to make it back to have a go at the attack taking place where they should be. If the story about Babel trying to engineer a move to Ajax is true then that's also most likely a big reason why he's not getting the time. Rafa doesn't need someone who will pack it in when things don't go well for him or the team out on the pitch, he needs someone who will step up in adversity. I can all but guarantee that if Babel had played crap and took the same beating Lucas took during the Fulham game and other games this season, his confidence and ability to play for us would be lost for good. I think at this point in his career he's more suited to a free flowing side like Barcelona who would let him go out and do what he wants without any real focus on tactics, shape, etc. If he matures and starts listening to Rafa he'll come good for us, if not then I can honestly see us cashing in sooner than later although I don't want that to happen.

Not trying to slag you off or anything as you have some good points about the game, but regarding our cup runs has anyone ever thought that our cup runs stemmed more from a belief in the side and support that just isn't there at the moment. Take the CL 04-05 when we went to Istanbul, every Red in the world knew we were winning that competition, once we got passed olympiacos you could feel it that we were gonna have a go and take the cup. The only time it was somewhat in doubt was at 3-0 down and still then our support kept belief. Then next season the FA cup the same thing happened and we push on to win the thing. This all stemmed from a belief the players had and our support never quitting. This season it seems our support is almost attacking the players as we get frustrated with the poor results. Sure we aren't playing great at the moment but as we know we're still top of the league and will be only 1 pt behind at worst after this weekend. Ask yourselves if you would have took being one point back in the league at mid December and in the last 16 of the CL before the season started and I think the majority of you would say yes. The fact that we're still neck and neck with 1st place and don't have our top scorer should tell you that we're only going to get better. What we really need to do as supporters is get behind the team and let them know we still have faith and that they truly will never walk alone like our anthem says. That's what we did at istanbul and I know we want the Prem so much more but all slagging them off will do is hurt the teams confidence. We need to show them we believe and that attitude will become contagious and the players will start believing as well, then we will dominate the lesser teams and possibly grab the title. I seem to remember the majority on here saying they'd be happy with a close 2nd or 3rd place finish this season granted we were in it til the end. At the moment we're not only on pace for that but can probably win it if we believe and show that never say die attitude that other clubs fear Liverpool FC for.

I think you'll be good as long as you don't forget to mention the fact that people wouldn't have died like either, along with all the good things that could have gone right with the club.

This is reminding me more and more of the Crouch situation every time he opens his mouth. If it's one thing I've think we learned about Rafa is he doesn't like players coming into the press about playing time. He wants them to work hard in training and show him they have the skills needed the old fashioned way. If he leaves now it will lead me to believe he's a quitter and won't get better, he certainly isn't going to get any better playing in the Dutch league where we already know what he can do. I'd sooner see him go to a championship side than make to holland. Wasn't there an article when he first came about Rafa needing to reteach him the proper way to kick a football? That being said I hope he comes good. Also I blame the agent for taking it to press, I don't think Babel would want to give rafa more reasons not to play him.

This is true, but I've always thought the main reason Babel prefers to cut in is because he has more confidence in his right foot. If played on the right then he would be cutting in onto his left and his shooting might be off if that was the case. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a run of games to be honest, but I just think he's dug himself into a bit of a hole with Rafa. I think he could be a great fill in for Torres at the moment but would rather see Kuyt partner him than Keane. I know a good lot want diego, and I agree he's a great player and could do well for us but what is he like in defense? I haven't seen enough of him to call it on that front.

I think that any type of moaning at all is enough to get him on Rafa's sh*t list and therefore limit his chances, not to mention it's unwarranted as he seems to play crap when his attitude is bad. What I meant about the olympics is that it was clear Rafa did not want him to go because he was just returning from an injury in the Euro's. While I can't blame Babel for representing Holland in the olympics, Rafa can and MAY which again would put Babel on the sh*t list. I just have a feeling the reason he doesn't start so much on the left, other than his obvious stamina issues, are that Rafa would rather play a player who is willing to accept that role there than one who is unhappy with that position and would rather play up front.

Riera being brought off is out of necessity and not because Rafa simply wants to replace him. He's always tired when he's brought off and his form drops considerably when he gets to that point. The problem with playing Babel on the right is he's not content being the guy who gets to the by line and whips in crosses. He doesn't want to be that player for us, he prefers to cut in and have a go himself and that's why he prefers the left side. You could argue that he's simply not confident in his left foot and that's why he rarely goes that way when playing on the left but if that's the case why not ASK to be played on the right? For me it's clear that he wants to be the one that's receiving the assists rather than the guy who is giving them. For all the sh*t Pennant gets, albeit deserved for the most part, at least he keeps width and does what Rafa asks of him from the wide position when he gets his chances. I've not once seen him try to be selfish with the ball, but many times have I seen Babel run himself into an opposition player and lose possession because he's stubborn and wants to beat the world all by himself. Don't get me wrong we need a player who can do that but we also need a player who's smart enough, or maybe mature is the better word, to know that he won't be able to do that all the time. If Babel had a better attitude and thought a little more about the team I think he would play more. El Zhar should be in with a shout but I'm far from convinced by him at this point.

The reason I think we need a right mid is because I want Kuyt to play up front. Don't get me wrong he's more than made that position his but I still feel he would be best used as a partner for Torres or in relief of him in some instances. It would also hopefully put Keane's place into doubt as at the moment I think he's very comfortable with the fact that his only competition comes from reserve players, N'Gog (who is a young, raw version of Torres at the moment not necessarilly in ability but in style.), or Babel who Rafa doesn't play up front either. Kuyt was banging them in for Feyenord and to see him upfront with two decent wide men to provide him and Torres service I really think they'd complement eachother perfectly plus he seems to be our best header of the ball in that position, and has a way better attitude than the irishman. Because Lucas is only 21, I know we've been spoiled by Masch being a prodigy and completely dominating the game at his young age, but not all players can be great so young and Lucas seems to have the right attitude. I'd be more interested in selling Babel at this point because he's always complaining about not getting his chance up front (although he has a case as Keane has been horrible) instead of shutting up and doing his work for the team. Not to mention he didn't listen to Rafa about the olympics and we all know how Rafa treats players who don't follow his directions.

I haven't heard about all that, but f*** it the guy can move his family here too for all I care. I do remember reading that he gets homesick playing for Spain I have no idea what the details of said homesickness are though. Either way he has to grow up sometime doesn't he? Besides we're about as Spanish as it gets when you talk about leaving la liga.

I agree about Pennant and Benayoun, but Lucas is only 21. Give him at least one more season before we decide if he's good enough. We've only seen a handful of performances and he's played well more often than not. That said, I'd like to see us bring in a good wide right player, this will allow Kuyt to play his role predominantly upfront where we know he is best used. He'll be good cover for the right but we all know he shouldn't be first choice there. As to who I'd bring in, it would be Jesus Navas from Sevilla, the only issue I have with him is he looks a little small but I still think he could do a job for us. He's fast, can shoot, dribble, and hits the ball with power. Plus he's only 22 I believe and therefore will have plenty of time to adapt to life in Liverpool, and being from Spain it shouldn't be hard from him to feel at home and we all know what the spanish think of Rafa. I wouldn't mind Arshavin though like some have suggested, he's a great player, but isn't his best position the one Gerrard currently prefers? Complimentary Youtube link :

I'd like to see Babel have a go up front with Kuyt. Put Keane on the bench and have one of Pennant, or Yossi on the right. Babel is always talking about how he wants to be a striker so I say Rafa just humours the kid and gives him a chance. I know the manager can't conform to players desires all the time, but maybe it will show Babel that if he's patient he'll get his chances and then it's up to him if he can take them or not. The reason I'd want Kuyt up there with Babel is I think Keane's attitude would be counterproductive with a young player up next to him. Not to mention Kuyt if obviously the more in form of the two.

In my opinion the answer to your question isn't quite straight forward. At the moment yes we lack another adventurous dynamic midfielder to give Gerrard a break now and then. However, I really feel that he's in our squad at the moment in Lucas. He just lacks the confidence or maybe even Rafa's permission to be more attacking and he doesn't always get the chance to come in for Gerrard from the start and therefore play the game his way. He almost always has specific instructions for his appearances and so we really don't know what we have in him. I agree he had a bad game at Fulham but if he presses on through the battering he took from our fans then I think he'll come good. We really should just be thankful it wasn't Babel who was treated that way as I see Babel as one that would crack under that type of criticism, but I don't want to turn this into another thread about that. My point is I feel Rafa wants Lucas to be Gerrard's understudy and heir apparent, not for the captaincy mind you but for that role of moving the ball up through the center and pressuring the opponent's penalty box from the cm position. If ever plays for us like he did at Gremio we'll have two of the best attacking mids on the world's on our books. I see a lot of want us to get Diego but you have to remember this is Rafa we're talking about and I think Diego is too attacking for him, he's not a "Rafa" player if you will. I'll admit I've not seen him play for Bremen, only for Brasil and he fits their ultra attacking style well but thats nothing like how we play. We need a midfielder that will attack and can and will defend as well. I've never read an article about Diego getting stuck in or making that last second tackle or even defending the way Rafa wants our midfielders to play. If anyone has evidence to suggest otherwise please show me, I wouldn't mind him hear I just don't think he does enough on both ends for Rafa to warrant spending the money we need on him.

I think we obviously need an attacking wide player. Not so much because Kuyt has been poor because anyone who watches can see he's been one of our best players all season, but because I would like to see Kuyt get a run up front, especially if we have to play Babel there for any length of time due to Torres hamstring problems. Like it or not the hamstring is one of the worst injuries an athlete can get, not so much do to severity but the fact that it takes time for it to heal fully and can recur. I agree with Rafa that Spain is the problem but I don't see a fit Torres denying himself the opportunity to play for his country. All that being said I'd like to see us make a run at Jesus Navas of Sevilla. I've seen him play when watching the spanish league a few times and I think he's brilliant. He can beat players, has pace, and scores some great goals. I've heard he's homesick though and he's probably their best player at the moment so it might be hard to get him in January but if not then hopefully we definitely make a run at him in the summer. Of course this all depends on where we are financially at that time.

Completely agree, I was really disappointed in Babel, that was his moment to show Rafa he needs to play up front and he went ghost on the team. I've come to expect that type of performance from Yossi as I've always thought he was crap. He plays his role in a few games but generally tends to disappear when we need that spark. The real shocker was the defense though, I can't remember the last time we looked so confused at the back. I don't fault Carra for the own goal so much but their winner could have easily been avoided and it seemed like we just decided to be content with the point instead of trying to fight on like we have done with success so many times this season

Or even better and thanked brown for the assist. That'd have been brilliant. Overall though he played well and was hardly the player I've heard some city fans talk of

Or even better and thanked brown for the assist. That'd have been brilliant. Overall though he played well and was hardly the player I've heard some city fans talk of