goodrobotusses

And it's not as if they've dumped these players on his head. As far as anyone can tell, these are the lads Slot himself wanted. Marc Guehi must have some unknown god-like powers we're not aware of for our s*** performances to rest on his non-signing.

Think Slot’s future is dictated entirely by context. Things are s*** now and have been for most of the season despite some decent results to start, but that doesn’t mean things can’t improve. Isak, Wirtz and Mac Allister all click and suddenly we look a different proposition. But as stated by others, the worry is that there are few signs of a coherent direction. Sacking him now in the assumption he can’t get us going again would be madness IMO, a panicked attempt to preempt the possibility things get worse. But if things do get worse, and we’re still a s***show come December, the pressure on his job will be real and justified. Likewise, if we limp through the season but somehow do enough to snaffle a CL spot, albeit still with no obvious coherence in the team, his job will be under threat and justifiably so. But if he can get us out of this tailspin and we have a strong, coherent second half of the season and the plan, whatever it is, looks to be coming together, then we look back at the season as one of transition and go again. The bare minimum is CL qualification for me, but it has to be paired with the sense that Slot has got a grip on things and this new team can challenge for trophies again under him.

I get all that, but I mean just as a leader and organiser.

As much as anything, I want him back simply because there are so few leaders in the team at the moment, especially with Robbo becoming a bit-part player and Mac struggling. Felt a bit weird looking longingly at Henderson last night.

I'm torn on the idea of Klopp coming back so soon (should he want to). Think asking him to come back and be "head coach" of a club with Edwards and Ward in situ again, plus Salah and whatever issue was between them towards the end, could be a recipe for strife. That said, he is by far the best (theoretically) available coach out there.

A fading Robbo is still a better player than current Kerkez. Hopefully Kerkez develops, but right now he looks a dud, in this system and way of playing at least.

All summer we heard how the club wanted to build something in the vein of Enrique's PSG, but I don't understand how signing Wirtz fits that model. PSG play like a hybrid of Guardiola and Klopp's best teams. They have three controlling midfielders who can all handle themselves, pass well and cover space, two world class flying full-backs and play three of four forwards who are all fast, strong, excellent dribblers who press like maniacs. Wirtz – as obviously talented as he is – wouldn't get into the current PSG team because he suits a completely different style of football and team shape, so if PSG were the model, why did we sign him?

Think there's definitely a case for a back four of Robbo, Konate, VvD and Gomez, assuming Joe can last a run of games.

100%. We had so many tedious first halves last season but he had an uncanny knack of finding the solution 2nd half, which papered over it. Now the 2nd halves are often worse.

I suspect he almost never faced it up to this point. Like a concert pianist who can’t play Chopsticks.

He’s been crap but why we keep asking him to play as a third CB in our painfully slow and ineffective build-up is a mystery to me. Lad can run, can cross, can’t pass, doesn’t think. If we wanted a hybrid LB, why didn’t we just sign Hato or any of the other hybrid LCBs out there? We spent the last years trying to shoehorn Robbo into this sort of thing, to Robbo’s detriment. It’s the definition of madness.

Was thinking last night about what Klopp might try with this squad, given we never had a player like Wirtz, unless we wanted to shift him to left forward in a 4-3-3 like Coutinho. I remembered the whole thing about how we kept the team stable out of possession by having a player become a fourth midfielder. For years and at its best it was Firmino dropping off, who along with the workmanlike midfield gave Robbo and TAA licence to attack all game. Then when Darwin came and was more interested in playing on the shoulder than dropping off, we had to do the TAA inverting thing and asked Robbo to sit more, which worked less well, but it was a fudge that bore some results. Now we have Isak, who is more Darwin than Bobby, and Wirtz who looks not in the same physical league as a Firmino. The only idea I could think of that retained this four-man midfield principle was hinted at in the Frankfurt game. Play a Leipzig-style box midfield (4-2-2-2) with Wirtz and Szobo behind Isak/Eki and Salah, each of whom would have the responsibility of operating as No9s who also operated on their respective flank. That way maybe we free up the full-backs to overlap and underlap, depending on where their forward was on the pitch at that moment, with the two No10s also making alternating runs into the box. It would mean round pegs in round holes, theoretically give us more heft in midfield with Szobo’s athleticism restored there permanently, and hopefully put an end to this thing of asking attacking left-backs to play as auxiliary CBs in build-up play. Whether it works in practice, I have no idea, however, because Frankfurt were garbage.

I don't think we really are arguing, certainly not trying to convince you or anyone else or anything, just putting my own thoughts out there in response to the wider discussion. I'm very concerned but I'd be just as concerned if we jettisoned a title-winning coach too quickly without a plan, so I'm hoping Slot has it in him to sort this mess because it's not looking good.

And if it stays like this Slot will pay for it with his job, but we gave Klopp grace for bad seasons and acknowledged there were factors behind them (usually injuries). There are factors at play here (Mac/Isak fitness, Jota’s death) but not so many to justify how bad we’ve been for quite a while now if you include pre-season and much of the second half of last season. Slot might not have as much credit in the bank as Klopp did, but he did still win the league in his first season. Granted, against the background of a City collapse and Arsenal flattering to deceive, but it’s not nothing. We were good for a lot of last season, not peak-Klopp/Guardiola years good, but good.

If he can’t find a solution to this, he’s toast. Can’t just bemoan the end of the Guardiola/Klopp era of possession and counter-pressing football. Guardiola himself is adapting, so Slot can’t use it as an excuse every week. Yeah, that was the most worrying thing. The players looked rudderless.

Think the club would act if the collapse lasted to the point that CL football next season is in danger. We’ve spent a lot of money and the squad is one of the best in Europe. There’s enough time for him to get things back in order, because it’s October. But if we don’t get out of this tailspin soon the season could quickly becoming a write-off.

If we go on to have a season like 2014-15, Slot should go, as should have Rodgers at the time. But Slot's earned the chance to turn this season around, even if we're looking like a mess right now and the title is probably already gone.

A sustained absolute collapse then.

Short of an absolute collapse, Slot gets the season to get the team through this transition. He's earned it. I would hope and expect us to be on an upward curve again in the second half of the season. If not, then it's fair to question his position, but things would still have to be in a mess like the current one for that to be the case. On Iraola, I suspect he's the sort of coach whose teams will always have a late-season collapse, like Bielsa's, unless he can learn to moderate how his teams play from time to time.

Looking like a man ill-prepared for the PL's return to the football of 20 years ago. Guessing the Eredivisie and videos of Guardiola teams weren't the best grounding for POMO and punts from the back. Will need to figure it out fast. There are legit reasons for difficulties – fitness of key players, integrating half a new team, the psychological impact of Jota's death – but we've been awful for 95% of this season so far, and in some worryingly basic ways.

The only player coming out of this season with any credit so far. Maybe Ekitike.

Or that. Does like a bit of banter, does Ibou.

I need someone with a better memory than me help me out. IIRC Gerrard missed the 2002 World Cup after persistent groin injuries, deciding instead to get a hernia operated on. So was the 2002-03 season the one where his form fell off a cliff for a bit and he got dropped for Salif Diao etc? I remember that whenever this was, there were suggestions that Gerrard was being threatened by unsavoury types etc and that this was behind his poor performances, but could the slump in form have been just as much tied up in his slow recovery from the hernia op? The reason I'm bringing this up is because it seems Mac Allister was dealing with some kind of similar injury last season – never fully fit yet still able to play – and then supposedly had a hernia operated on in the summer. Could it be that his sluggish performances are the tail of his recovery from the operation and injuries, similar to how it was with Gerrard?

Are those quotes real?

Didn't say he isn't good though, said he's overrated, which he is. He'd almost certainly be the best player at a Villa or an Everton.