Frosty Jack

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Here we go again Mr "not racist". "italian society" my f***ing a***. Are Tony Blairs actions an indictment of British society? It's an individual, and did he even say it at all? Italy has just voted in Romano Prodi as prime minister, do some f***ing research, do you know how difficult it is to defeat a governing coalition with an absolute stranglehold on the media and finance? That demonstrates great public will to me. And Autumn319....your country has had historically, and currently, equally bad problems with the hard right, and racism at the highest levels of government, don't attempt to tar all Italians with the same brush to justify a footballers indiscretion.

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The LFC one would have the football at its talons, it isnt just a regular liverbird.

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Indeed. It isn't that out of the realm of possibility. Marc Vivien Foe. Hilarious isn't the word I would've chosen mind.

So many people are still just assuming it was racist. I personally think the hypothesis of: "if you want my shirt so bad you can have it later" "f*** you, 'a black death on you and your family'" a lot more likely. the latter doesn't sound half as bad in Italian in this context, according to my better half. Its just hot headed. Materazzi wasn't to know Zidanes mother was in hospital, he takes him as he finds him.

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I have read most of the thread (especially the mOrTAl KoMbAT bits, they kIcK AsS!) and wasn't guessing what the consensus would be. I said 'everyone' I meant 'some of the more vociferous on this forum'.

Yes but in the context of Italian, it might be nothing worse than a common insult. For example, in any language "son of a bitch" is very rarely intended as an insult to the persons mother, its just a reflex curse. This could well be the same thing, if it is indeed what he said. I'll ask my other half just how bad it is in Italian. Amazing how desperate to hate Materazzi/Italy everyone is, had one of our players said something similar in the same circumstances we would probably support them. It's pathetic really.

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It is all speculation, and will remain so unless Materazzi admits it. Remember the Viera-Mihalovic thing? "he called me a monkey" "well HE called me a gypsy" I think everyone watching just assumed that is what was said, and that has been reported since last night like it's accepted fact, and made it into the papers....once its in the papers, tv and radio take it as gospel too.

If I have a "ZZ voodoo doll", on this evidence you have an inflatable. I like Zidane as a player, who wouldn't? I never said I didn't. I called him a loser last night for being sent off, extremely foolishly, in a world cup final, that couldve ended his career on a high. I don't like the french team very much, and I was drunkenly enjoying the schadenfreude, there's no need to get personal with me. If materazzi said something racist, as it has automatically been assumed, then he is a prick, but until you know what he said, why are you so quick to dismiss him as being of bad character? In fact there seems to be a tinge of racism to the negative attitude towards the Italian players anyway. Stereotypes of dishonest, crooked etc. Either way, whatever he said, this kind of thing goes on in every single important game, and Zidane was experienced enough not to react, do you think no insults were headed in the opposite direction during the game? Italy deserved to win, and that every report is full of french sour grapes is really pissing me off.

think about it, what could he have said? it has been assumed in all quarters that it was a racist remark, why? and what kind of catchy racist remark would an italian know, in french or english, about french algerians, that would provoke such a reaction? And in a country as racist as france, would it really be enough? he could've just called him "baldy" for all we know.