Jim D

The draws that we've had this season is the equivalent to dropping 22 points about 7 defeats, that is why we are not challenging, its not that we are getting beat it is because we are not winning enough games. Our defence has been rock solid for a few seasons now but we've always found it difficult to score because of a lack of penetration. Houllier (defensive) and Evans (Attacking) could never find the balance between attack and defense to make us a formidable team. Rafa is seemingly struggling with this as well, last season we were great at home and terrible away but this season it has been the other way round but overall we are no different points wise at this stage of the season.

Fact of the matter is overall our squad is inferior to the Mancs, until we close the gap in terms of personnel to them, we will never have a genuine chance of challenging for the title. We have got some "decent" players in our squad but they have shown they are not good enough over a 38 League game season. Those players have shortcomings or a weakness in their game which to me either include a lack of mental strength, are inconsistent in their performances or age and injuries have taken their toll on their bodies. I feel the following players are in that category, some of them will be kept on by Rafa because he believes in their ability or they will be consigned to the dustbin come the summer. Finnan Hyypia Riise Kewell Voronin Benayoun Aurelio Crouch Pennant Arbeloa Kuyt So which of the above will Rafa keep and which should he sell on in the summer? Unless we sign two or three top quality players I cannot see us plugging that gap to the Mancs next season. Ask yourselves this question how many of the above players would get into the Mancs matchday squad?

Here is Mr Bennett kitted out for the game last Sunday.

Breaking News: The FA are going to watch the video evidence in the immediate aftermath of the sending off. They are going to look at Mascherano's conduct while leaving the pitch. Bennett said in his match report that he had concerns about how long it took Mascherano to leave the pitch and that is why the FA are looking at the video. I'm expecting at most for Mascherano to get an extended 1 match ban.

I see Beckham will be getting his 100th cap against France, quick get the sick bags out.

You forgot, they are English players, they have immunity from being booked for dissent, they are allowed to back chat and swear at the officials as much as they want to.

Every decision Clattenberg made was spot on in that game, he is a good referee.

Should be interesting, so we expect to see Bennett bring out a yellow card for the first sign of dissent from either a Newcastle or Spurs player then?

I did say "in the League" so what has the Portsmouth game got to do with it?

Aye looks like Capello is experimenting, to see who he thinks will stand out. Think he'll try: Ferdinand Terry Gerrard Owen Beckham

Huge game this, we need to turn our attention away from the Manc game and concentrate solely on the Everton game. To get into the swing of things here are a few videos about are neighbours across the park, just for fun. (NSFW language content) Bitterness Poor Tesco Tommy Gary Mac the Knife

Rafa needs a number two, he needs someone to act as the bridge between himself and the players. We know that Rafa is an outstanding tactical manager but seemingly in the Premier League he is falling short in motivating his players for League games. That is what Pako's job essentially was, Rafa needs to find another Pako and quickly.

That would have been great to see.

True but surely even the most biased of Mancs can admit that in the big games in the League any controversial decision made by a referee the majority of the time seems to come down in your favour. Funnily enough this doesn't happen in Europe, I wonder why?

I think there are some people on here who are "under estimating" the role of the Captain in the team. The choice of Captain is important, those reasons I have already mentioned earlier in the thread. Gerrard was chosen Captain because he was the best player in the team who could lead by example. However Gerrard misses a vital ingredient which every great Captain has and that is his ability to motivate and communicate to his players even when the chips are down and he himself isn't playing well. Gerrard doesn't do this, he goes into his own shell, if he does that who then do the players turn to? I don't like harping on about the past, but take a similar scenario, in the mid 1970s Keegan was undoubtedly our best player but Paisley never made him Captain, why? He gave it to Emlyn Hughes, Emlyn was a fantastic centre half so he would automatically gain the respect of his team mates. Emlyn in effect was "leading by example" for a player in his position, however Emlyn must have had something else that Keegan did not have that led to Paisley choosing him as Captain. Then when Dalglish arrived who undoubtedly became our greatest player of all time, not once in his Liverpool playing career did he ever have the armband permanently. Why not? Dalglish could lead by example but again Kenny obviously missed a vital ingredient that makes you an outstanding choice for Captain. During that time the captaincy was given to Thompson and Souness. The person who is chosen Captain must have more than just "leading by example" he needs a certain personality trait, the "Type 2" we talked about at the beginning of the thread. Look at the title winning captains over the past 30 years you will find if not all of them were of "Type 2". I certainly see Carragher in that mould but now it is too late for him I feel, however I do see Mascherano as a possible candidate.

Yes and it looks like Mascherano's ban will be swiftly concluded today. You can obviously see where the FA's priorities lay, they much prefer to conclude a player being sent off for dissent than for a manager to commit slander in the media about them and their officials.

If you mean a title in one of the big European countries then I can only think of Aurelio won the title with Valencia when Rafa was in charge.

Not going to happen, the manager will always back/defend his players if he feels the situation wasn't primarily the players fault. Wenger and Ferguson have been doing it for years to promote a siege mentality within the squad why should Rafa start now?

Good point, as much as we are focussing on Mascherano's dismissal, the spark which lit the match was Torres asking the referee why aren't you protecting me and he got booked for it, ridiculous decision which then in turn lead to Mascherano's sending off but then the ref all of a sudden decided any other form of verbal dissent for the rest of the game didn't incur a booking. Yes it was the same referee, he sent him off when he didn't see it and Xabi slipped, lost his footing which in turn brought the Arsenal player down, purely accidental, comical decision again. See nothing has changed then from Mr Bennett.

Which is still less than what Rooney says to the referees in the space of 5 mins

Souness used to eat the opposition players for breakfast.

Nicely summed up, it took me endless amounts of typing and paragraphs to get to that summary

If it isn't that significant why bother choosing one? Why did Shanks take the armband off Smith and give it to Hughes? If I remember correct Smith resented Shanks for doing it but in the end Shanks made the right decision. The Captain is the Manager's eyes and ears out on the pitch, the one who tries to keep his players focused and gees them up when the chips are down. That is when you find out who is Captain material, the one who will stand up and be counted in the face of adversity. Gerrard has done this a few times credit to him, namely in the cup competitions. However there are times when he doesn't and disappears into a shell because he knows he cannot lift his game on that given day. That is what he relies too much on to motivate his team mates, he needs more than that, so he can lift his players week in, week out across a whole season. As much stick we give Gary Neville on here and rightly so he was probably given the armband by Ferguson not just because of how well he plays in his position but because of how well he can motivate and communicate to his team mates on the pitch. I'm sure some people will be making a few jokes about Mr Neville I'll give a another scenario, the England Captaincy, no way was David Beckham Captain material, he was given the armband because he "led by example" however he is no communicator and certainly not a motivator. Could you imagine Ferguson giving the captaincy to Beckham over Keane?

Aye its all in the mind.....

On the surface it seems absurd but you only need to look at the games against the big teams in the Premiership. Anyway the point I'm trying to make is in the overall context of a 38 game season. Do you think Gerrard can be a "Title winning" Captain? Even though it has gone slightly off topic that question is basically the crux of this mini debate. I know he can lead us to another European Cup but to a League Title, I can't see it.