Bromage

Why was Babel not in the squad yesterday? Just rested or injured?

BBC Radio 4, The Reunion – The Hillsborough Disaster (Press Release) 11.15am-12 noon Sunday 12 April, repeat 17 April 9am-9.45am In the second programme of the award-winning Radio 4 series The Reunion, Sue MacGregor is joined by five people who were involved in the Hillsborough disaster, which resulted in the death of 96 Liverpool football fans. The fans died as the result of a terrace crush at an FA Cup semi final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest, 20 years ago, on 15 April 1989. The tragedy at Hillsborough was the worst spectator disaster in the history of British sport and resulted in widespread change in the design and safety of British sports stadia. The fatal terrace crush at the Sheffield Wednesday ground was ostensibly caused by a human tide of fans being swept along a sloping tunnel onto two already full "pens" which were blocked to the side and front by perimeter fencing. Fans at the front were crushed or trampled. Sue MacGregor is joined by Jenni Hicks, who went to the game with her husband, Trevor, and teenage daughters Victoria, 19, and Sarah, 15, who both died. "We went as a family but came back a couple," recalls Jenni. Another mother, Margaret Aspinall, vice chair of the Hillsborough Family Support Group, lost her 18-year-old son, James, who was attending his first Liverpool away game. Colin Moneypenny, who survived the crush, describes the "utter chaos" of being "carried off my feet for 30 to 40ft" along the Leppings Lane tunnel to within 10ft of the front perimeter fence. Paramedic Tony Edwards was in the first vehicle to treat injured fans on the pitch. He still suffers feelings of trauma and guilt for driving away instead of staying to help others. Dr Rogan Taylor was chairman of the Football Supporters Association at the time of Hillsborough and is now a professor at the University of Liverpool's Football Research Centre. Presenter: Sue MacGregor CBE Producer: Chris Green The Reunion is a Whistledown. production for BBC Radio 4. Whistledown. 8A Ayres Street, London SE1 1ES Tel: 0207 407 8001 www.whistledown.net

Fact is that Rafa has limited choice in that role if he want to play SG up front. He's had limited starts by comparison with others and short of playing Plessis or Spearing, who else has as much experience as him? I think with him, it's the same as with Babel in that when he does well he get's approval but the moment he doesn't, he gets criticism. IF people believe that's the way to encourage and bring through our young talent then God help us all!

I think to be serious that Fergie's attitude has always been to tell his team that they are the best, whatever the outcome. I guess you could argue that for him to say "the best team won" could be regarded as an admission that we are a better team and that could have a longer-term negative impact on his players. I can't remember Rafa ever saying that "we were beaten by the better side". I suspect that privately he would acknowledge our superiority, ON THE DAY but it can't be good to say that publicly to his players and fans.

I think Rafa has given a very clear signal that for him, it's the team and not the individual that matters and he is prepared to demonstrate that ruthlessly if necessary, even to the so-called top players. I suspect his reasons for shipping Keane out early were more to do with his "mentality" than his games to goals ratio and for that he's prepared to be judged as a success or failure. By the way, isn't it interesting to recall his decision not to let Babel go to Ajax on loan in December; was this in fact the time when he had already decided to ship Keane out? Rafa knows that he'll continue to be berated by the hacks for the rest of the season and if we fall behind in the title race, as far as they're concerned it'll be because he let Keane go. If he succeeds then he'll be praised by the people who matter, the Fans, for maintaining his beliefs in the Team; after all, despite maintaining our favourites in the squad, what really matters to us is the badge. If he fails then at least he'll have no reason to complain if the outcome is terminal.

That's probably what we had paid so far anyway so we probably got our money back.

I'm going to err on the side of "massive relief" that Keane's finally gone; it's honestly the best thing for him and it's good for Rafa, in that he doesn't have to justify leaving him out of the side any more (given how much we paid for him) and it'll stop the constant sniping from the pundits. I'll concede that on the face of it, we seem light in terms of strikers but maybe at last Babel will take the responsibility on his shoulders and start making the contribution he has threatened to make in the past. Have to say I was a little surprised we didn't look at Quaresma but hopefully that's a vote of confidence in El Zahr for the rest of the season.

I think the team for Wednesday night will answer these questions. I suspect Rafa will see the need to change players for the Wigan game and MAYBE he'll bring Keane back with Torres. I agree with most people that he hasn't worked for us so far and also the fact that he's 29 means we don't have the luxury of waiting another season (a la Henri). However it's clear that the best formation is Gerrard behing Torres and it should stay that way other than, heaven forbid, one of them gets injured. What seems to be more of a problem to me is that our wide players are not looking to break into the box or put in quality crosses so much if what we do is fed through the middle and that's seeming to look predictable to defences. Rafa clearly likes Kuyt but IMHO right now I'd prefer to see El Zahr & Riera than Kuyt & Babel, as I think that would at least provide us with another dimension to our attacking play.

--------------Cavallieri----------------- Arbeloa-------Carra-------Agger-------Auerlio Kuyt-------Gerrard------Masch------Lucas ------------------Babel--------------------- ------------------Torres--------------------

IMHO I don't think we're playing any worse now than we did at the start of the season; our position at the top until last week, was as much down to the poor results of the other "top 4" as it has been down to our success but it's mostly due to our avoiding defeat. Sometimes we've been beautiful but mostly erratic, which is why I think our best form is yet to come and we are still in with a great chance, providing we have belief and the team stays fit. The crowd have a massive influence in our quest and if every home game is treated like a CL semi vs. Chelsea, I have no doubt we will be successful.

Once or twice........

Absolutely right! All players give the ball away but he does it significantly less than most. The thing I admire about him is that he never stops improving and learning from other players. Whilst I know he has always had a tendency to pass long, he seems to have improved 100% since Xabi joined. There was a time when his completion rate was average but now it is virtually perfect and it's interesting to see others in the team seemingly making similar progress.

Yes of course, you're right. But would sanctimony be appropriate if you read this headline in 3 months time, "Gerrard Jailed For 6 Months For ABH"; he'd miss the end of the season, could cost us the title (we are a one-man team after all) and with the case hanging over him, he'd probably find it hard to focus 100%. Would people feel the same about him if this were the case and even if he went to court and was found not guilty, wouldn't it still be an unnecessary distraction?

I think you're trying to go down the, "he's just an ordinary bloke and should be allowed to do what the rest of can do". Nothing could be further from the truth; would you be happy to see him adopt the same lifestyle as you or I or most of the people on here? We make choices in our lives which we either base on past mistakes or what we've been taught; for example I would prefer to pick up my 16 year old son up from a late night party rather than let him get a lift with his mates. I'd also rather pick up my older daughter from work after the Christmas Party rather than let her drive home on the basis that she's "only had one drink". Stevie always seems to have led a very balanced family life and so it's probably the case (hopefully) that something happened by surprise and he was probaby an innocent bystander. Nonetheless you have to ask whether the choice of venue and time of night was smart.

On £120k a week, you learn to make a few sacrifices!

IMHO, at 29 and with a wife and 2 kids, he shouldn't need to be out in a public place at 2:30am. He'll be aware that at that time of the day in a public place, there is most likely to be drink-induced potential agression and he or the people with him should be smart enough to realise the risk and avoid it at all costs. Nobody knows yet whether he was inolved or a bystander in what happened but what's quite clear is that he should never have allowed himself to be in that position. Lastly with regard to the club's permission, how did they not realise the potential for problems and ensure that he was properly chaperoned?

IMHO I don't believe any of our strikers are so "hot" at the moment that they would make it difficult for Torres to return. The comment earlier about the dangers of being gently eased back are spot on, so I would play him as soon as he is ready and take him off when he's tired.

I think this was more a question of avoiding the question and why would he volunteer that information?

1. Gerrard 2. Lucas 3. Carragher

Certainly no comparison intended, it's entirely about available budget for players in positions we urgently need. It could be argued that if Torres and Keane can work then Gerrard could more than adequately fill the Alonso role. Doesn't mean I want him to go, far from it!

Don't want to turn this into a transfer thread but would Rafa be prepared to admit a mistake in signing Dossena after such a short time?

I agree completely but it does wory me when I hear of interest in Glen Johnson at £9m and I wonder where the money's coming from.

Is the performance from Lucas today a signal for Rafa to cash in on Alonso in the summer?

1. Alonso 2. Hyypia 3. Keane

Nice to know we're still joint top, eh?