RTK & SOS

[Spirit Of Shankly]

RTK & SOS

 

 

The People's Front of Judea? The Judean People's Front? Questions have been

raised lately asking why there are two separate fan groups at Liverpool FC.

 

To make it clear to everyone - there are not.

 

A meeting was held 2 weeks ago between those involved in the Reclaim The Kop

(RTK) campaign and the Spirit Of Shankly (SOS) Management Committee, a

committee which incidentally, includes people involved in RTK since it's

inception. The meeting was held to explore ways in which the two groups

could not only co-exist, but also work together to achieve our aims. In all

theses respects the meeting went extremely well. It became evident that both

groups can compliment each other and work together in addressing the key

issues that affect all LFC supporters.

 

RTK has always been about addressing the issue of the match-day atmosphere

and experience; working on it, improving it, and hopefully returning it to

the days when opposing teams feared a visit to Anfield even before they had

set foot on the pitch itself.

 

RTK are still working with the club on all issues related to the atmosphere

at Anfield. There are lines of communication in place to discuss such issues,

the latest result being the expansion of the vocal section at the back of

The Kop.

 

Before the formation of SOS, RTK were the only recognised and active

Liverpool FC fan's group. This meant that RTK were often looked upon to

provide leadership at times when fans deemed it necessary. Issues such as

the Athens Ticket protests became RTK tasks. RTK arranged an open Q&A

session with Rick Parry last year to discuss the fall-out from this debacle

and ways in which similar occurrences could be avoided in future. This is

obviously something that would now fall under the jurisdiction of The Union.

Both groups can now work together to hopefully arrange a follow up

session.

 

 

Since the formation of SOS, there has been no need for RTK to step

forward as it did in the past, hence the lack of public visibility RTK has

had over the past few months. RTK does not represent all fans. It exists

purely to improve the atmosphere on match-days. RTK recognise that there is

now a new body that represents vocal and non-vocal fans on a much broader

range of issues; a body speaking for us AS ONE. The Union have been active

on these and other fronts, and will continue to be so, leaving RTK to

continue its work on the Anfield atmosphere and experience.

 

RTK will fall under the umbrella of The Union, reporting fan related issues

into the wider body. RTK fully supports all of the SOS agendas, both short

and long term, and will continue to wholeheartedly support the aims of SOS.

 

The Union now has a Management Committee in place. The bank account is open

and all the hard work in setting up The Union is finally coming to fruition.

Online memberships will be available sooner rather than later. All the

pieces are starting to fall into place. RTK are now going to form part of

that structure for fan / atmosphere related issues, leaving the wider issues

to the Management Committee and membership of The Union.

 

There can be no division between Liverpool supporters at this time. This

summer the threat of falling even further behind our main rivals, both

financially and on the pitch, is starker than ever. Throughout the next

fortnight we shall be in touch further; outlining our broader aims in

general and taking the fight to the ownership in particular. We would also

like to restate the importance of ALL of us speaking with ONE voice.

 

We are all in this together. Strength in numbers.

 

Spirit Of Shankly and RTK

[fyds]

I wish you guys all the best with this, but feel having RTK on board (even though personally I can see the logic in it) is going to put a few people off and raise at least as many questions as answers.

Edited June 16, 2008 by fyds

[honourablegeorge]

I'd agree. Better for SOS to narrow their focus rather than broaden it.

[Gomez]

Don't like the name "The Union" how about "Our thing" or some such?

Edited June 16, 2008 by Gomez

[Spirit Of Shankly]

I wish you guys all the best with this, but feel having RTK on board (even though personally I can see the logic in it) is going to put a few people off and raise at least as many questions as answers.

 

Can I ask why you think that?

[johngibo YPC]

I'd agree. Better for SOS to narrow their focus rather than broaden it.

 

They can't win in that respect. If they say 'we are solely focussed on removing G&H from the club' people will moan at them for not having long term aims

[Kuyt-fever]

Can I ask why you think that?

 

 

Quite a few people dislike RTK.

 

Now that RTk has joined the Union, does that mean SOS will take over their link with the club? The club and Rtk have been working together sine Rtk's inception , can Sos really do this when they're trying to have the board removed? Seems a little odd.

[RP]

... can Sos really do this when they're trying to have the board removed? Seems a little odd.

 

No they're not.

[Gomez]

No they're not.

 

Aren't they? two thirds of it surely?

[johngibo YPC]

Quite a few people dislike RTK.

 

Now that RTk has joined the Union, does that mean SOS will take over their link with the club? The club and Rtk have been working together sine Rtk's inception , can Sos really do this when they're trying to have the board removed? Seems a little odd.

 

On your first point i agree. And RTK quite openly dislike a large percentage of our support. However i guess now that RTK is part of SOS their public announcements will go (to be fair, haven't heard much from them recently anyway), and SOS will be the public voice. Then the RTK lads can focus fully on their own objectives. Of which i believe they have had a reasonable amount of success. Knox is also right when he says that RTK were asked to lead on a couple of things that they proabbly weren't best suited for, and therefore its probably the best thing all round. Its also worth pointing out that the RTK lads i know have been fully behind SOS from day one, so this is really just about answering the 'peoples front of Judea' b******s and showing that everyone is essentially singing from the same hymn sheet.

The second point is an interesting one. RTK's dialogue with the club has actually been pretty limited, yet successful obviously. In theory G&H could ban anyone from the club talking to RTK/SOS, but with the establishment of the singing section, and the expansion this year RTK have pretty much got what they wanted from the club anyway. Its sort of up to us now

[Billy Dane]

Has there been any dialogue between SOS,RTK and ShareLiverpool? And if so (or not) where do SOS etc stand on what Share Liverpool are trying to achieve and vice versa?

 

 

Could we see all 3 banding together?

[Tones]

Aren't they? two thirds of it surely?

 

They are. And i would think probably the other thrid aswell.

[johngibo YPC]

Has there been any dialogue between SOS,RTK and ShareLiverpool? And if so (or not) where do SOS etc stand on what Share Liverpool are trying to achieve and vice versa?

Could we see all 3 banding together?

 

As far as i know SOS have been in dialogue with ShareLiverpool and both support what each other are trying to do. I think there was some talk of SOS trying to make some changes to the ShareLiverpool proposal, but i may be mistaken. In terms of dialogue between RTK and SL i don't really see why there is the need.

In terms of banding together, i can't see it until both have something far more concrete in place. Then, for example SOS will have to decide which take over bid to throw thier weight behind

But this is all just my specualtion

[RP]

Aren't they? two thirds of it surely?

 

Their stated aims make no mention of "trying to have the Board removed".

[Gomez]

Their stated aims make no mention of "trying to have the Board removed".

 

From their website:

 

To rid the club of Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

 

As G&H and their respective spawn make up two thirds of the board, that's tantamount to the same thing? Unless they don't want Foster and Junior out. Which I doubt.

[Herbie von Smalls]

RTK previously had dealings with the board and managed to 'negotiate' the 1892 section in the Kop. directly or indirectly, their influence has helped to incorporate ('on paper' anyway ) a single-tiered Kop for the... ahem, new stadium. they have achieved some degree of success in their aims by talking to the current owners - or at least the owners' representatives.

 

given that SoS appears to rule out contact with the owners, is RTK abandoning its policy of dialogue now that it's fully behind SoS aims? or does SoS support RTK's efforts to improve stadium atmosphere via contact with the club?

[RP]

From their website:

As G&H and their respective spawn make up two thirds of the board, that's tantamount to the same thing? Unless they don't want Foster and Junior out. Which I doubt.

 

Their stated aims are very specific.

[fyds]

Can I ask why you think that?

Whatever their aims and best intentions, many fans see RTK as a self-elected (there goes that phrase again), elitist group of 'superfans' who have little or no time for sections of our own support. This may or may not be true, but it is a popular perception and, as you know in a PR/political battle for the club which is effectively where we are, perception is almost everything.

 

It's the Euro-sausage conundrum applied to football - people hating the EU because they've heard that the commission wants English sausages reclassified as mechanically extruded tubular meta-by product containers. and bananas to be straight etc...all false, but RTK has the same fate -their aims and objectives may be right and noble, but the perception is they are trying to tell people how and in what way to support their club, how and what songs to sing...they have not won the PR battle.One of the lads I meet up with on match days, a local lad from Great Homer St goes apopleptic whenever RTK are mentioned 'self-righteous, pompous c*nts who think they own the f*cking place' he says - I'll never be able to convince him otherwise. Personally, I think part of the reason SoS has received a sometimes mixed welcome in some quarters on forums and among fans is as a result of what has gone before with RTK, and some people are afraid you will be offering more of the same. I don't think you will from all you've said and done, but even with me RTK scratch at that bit of me that has always worried about our fans occasional tendecy to parochialism - easily seen in references to the current owners being pilloried as much for being 'Yanks' as for being crap.

 

PR wise, among our own fanbase RTK have been far from a runaway success and in your association with them you've taken on a bit of a gamble and for a time at least (and I hope only a time) you may have checked an amount of your appeal. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and it works out.

[Gomez]

Their stated aims are very specific.

 

Why are you arguing this? What is your point?

If they want G&H out of the club, then that means from the board? There is no two ways about that.

 

The initial question is still valid in can SOS have effective links with the club like RTK do / did if their aim is to remove the majority of the board.

[DaveLFC]

Whatever their aims and best intentions, many fans see RTK as a self-elected (there goes that phrase again), elitist group of 'superfans' who have little or no time for sections of our own support. This may or may not be true, but it is a popular perception and, as you know in a PR/political battle for the club which is effectively where we are, perception is almost everything.

 

It's the Euro-sausage conundrum applied to football - people hating the EU because they've heard that the commission wants English sausages reclassified as mechanically extruded tubular meta-by product containers. and bananas to be straight etc...all false, but RTK has the same fate -their aims and objectives may be right and noble, but the perception is they are trying to tell people how and in what way to support their club, how and what songs to sing...they have not won the PR battle.One of the lads I meet up with on match days, a local lad from Great Homer St goes apopleptic whenever RTK are mentioned 'self-righteous, pompous c*nts who think they own the f*cking place' he says - I'll never be able to convince him otherwise. Personally, I think part of the reason SoS has received a sometimes mixed welcome in some quarters on forums and among fans is as a result of what has gone before with RTK, and some people are afraid you will be offering more of the same. I don't think you will from all you've said and done, but even with me RTK scratch at that bit of me that has always worried about our fans occasional tendecy to parochialism - easily seen in references to the current owners being pilloried as much for being 'Yanks' as for being crap.

 

PR wise, among our own fanbase RTK have been far from a runaway success and in your association with them you've taken on a bit of a gamble and for a time at least (and I hope only a time) you may have checked an amount of your appeal. I sincerely hope I'm wrong and it works out.

 

 

Could not have put that better myself.

[JamesMc]

RTK have had a working relationship with Liverpool Football Club to attempt to improve the atmosphere at games. It is a relationship that should not be affected because they are working alongside the Union. If it does become affected it says alot about our football club.

 

fyds, You have said it is indeed a perception of RTK. As indeed many people have perceptions of the Union. I, personally, think RTK have done alot.Others don't.

 

I don't see any problem with RTK working with SOS

[Guest PaulMcC]

I think that block in 306 has been a success.

[MFletcher]

RTK have had a working relationship with Liverpool Football Club to attempt to improve the atmosphere at games. It is a relationship that should not be affected because they are working alongside the Union. If it does become affected it says alot about our football club.

 

fyds, You have said it is indeed a perception of RTK. As indeed many people have perceptions of the Union. I, personally, think RTK have done alot.Others don't.

 

I don't see any problem with RTK working with SOS

 

Yes, but RTK are now co-operating with SOS, hence falling under the same 'umbrella' of supporter groups. With SOS's ultimate aim being the removal of the American owners from the club, it will be difficult for RTK to justify working with the club whilst working with SOS to ultimately remove those who own the club.

 

And regarding perceptions, I hold the view that there is an undercurrent of "we know best" that is prevalent in both organisations. I find it patronising sometimes, especially when concerns I raise about something are dismissed as me being an apologist or whatever. Some members of SOS have made an effort to answer the questions fully, and they must be given credit for that. But the last thing they need is to fail in the PR battle in a similar way to RTK.

[Knox_Harrington]

Yes, but RTK are now co-operating with SOS, hence falling under the same 'umbrella' of supporter groups. With SOS's ultimate aim being the removal of the American owners from the club, it will be difficult for RTK to justify working with the club whilst working with SOS to ultimately remove those who own the club.

 

And regarding perceptions, I hold the view that there is an undercurrent of "we know best" that is prevalent in both organisations. I find it patronising sometimes, especially when concerns I raise about something are dismissed as me being an apologist or whatever. Some members of SOS have made an effort to answer the questions fully, and they must be given credit for that. But the last thing they need is to fail in the PR battle in a similar way to RTK.

The club and its day to day are separate to the owners. This separation at the very least is starkly geographic. Given the fact that the CEO of the club and one of the owners are at loggerheads, it's fair to say there is a separation.

 

On your second paragraph, it's been made clear communications with this forum haven't been what they should be. The very fact Jay has registered here is an attempt to improve communications on this specific forum. I've been a lot more prominent in the last week or so. However I think to offer credit in your second to last sentence for thorough answers being given and then end with a warning is a little akin to politicians "talking us into a recession". Thorough answers have been given recently and they will continue to be. Hopefully the SOS website will arrive soon. Beyond that, there's little SOS can do but keep working. If people join SOS they'll do so because there's a set of aims being worked towards and they broadly agree with those aims and would like to support, assist, direct and involve themselves in the process of working towards them.

[MFletcher]

The club and its day to day are separate to the owners. This separation at the very least is starkly geographic. Given the fact that the CEO of the club and one of the owners are at loggerheads, it's fair to say there is a separation.

 

At the same time, the owners may perceive club co-operation with RTK as something they could do without, especially when RTK and SOS appear to be falling under the same supporter group 'umbrella'. Whether this happens in the future or not isn't clear, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the owners would prefer to severe contact with RTK, rather than associate themselves in any way with SOS - especially given the reason it was created for.

 

On your second paragraph, it's been made clear communications with this forum haven't been what they should be. The very fact Jay has registered here is an attempt to improve communications on this specific forum. I've been a lot more prominent in the last week or so. However I think to offer credit in your second to last sentence for thorough answers being given and then end with a warning is a little akin to politicians "talking us into a recession". Thorough answers have been given recently and they will continue to be. Hopefully the SOS website will arrive soon. Beyond that, there's little SOS can do but keep working. If people join SOS they'll do so because there's a set of aims being worked towards and they broadly agree with those aims and would like to support, assist, direct and involve themselves in the process of working towards them.

 

It's nothing of the sort. I think you did an excellent job when questions were raised. I didn't approve of the way such concerns were initially dismissed by some, although they weren't necessarily SOS 'people' as it were. But that level of involvement has to be maintained. If it isn't, you could well find yourselves in a situation where you're perceived as 'elitist' - and losing the PR war with the club's own fanbase will put you in an impossible position when attempting to win the PR war with the owners.

 

I think an anthem of some sort for the Union would be appropriate - perhaps some sort of Queen song would suffice?