Reality check

[Kop_90]

I have read many topics over the last few months regarding the position of the Club / Team.

How the Manager should go, players not good enough etc.....

 

Being old enough to remember the days when we won the league on a regular basis, I have to agree its dissapointing to have gone so long without wining the league.

 

However compare what we have done in the last 8 yrs to the majority of teams then can we complain.

 

Best ever champions league final

Best ever FA cup final

Best ever UEFA cup final

 

add to that another FA cup win, a couple of League cup wins and the Super cup.

Along with another Champs league final, League cup final and Charity shield matches.

 

Would i swap any of this for a league win, no i would not. The joy on my 15yr old son's face at the end of the Final in istanbul will live with me forever. Ask him would he swap and the answer is the same.

 

I know the argument will be, we need to compete in the league and i agree but here are some of the reasons why we struggle to compete at present

 

1) UTD have consistently spent more than us over a period of 15 yrs, having had £30 million players in place for a good few years

2) Chelsea have in the last 4yrs spent over £300 million on players which has contributed greatly towards 2 titles

3) UTD and Arsenal have both had managers in place for a number of years who have built a wining team and i believe in Wenger the best manager in Europe.

4) Benitez has only had limited money to work with until this year and even then he spent less than £30 million net. To spend big has meant selling players and then we have to rely on someone being prepared to buy at a price that suits us.

 

We just need a reality check and understand the majority of fans/clubs will never have our record. Stop moaning and support the team and manager. We have had good times, days / nights i will never forget.

 

I believe if we trust Rafa and give him money to spend, Money that will make the difference, then we can win the league. It's going to be hard and we will need a bit of luck on the way. Its not blind faith, its support of a team i have watched for nearly 40yrs and im sick and tired of listening to whingers at the match.

 

Go and support someone like Newcastle / Boro or even Everton if you don't like it

[Bo Benn]

Agree with a lot of what you say. In particular the first half of the post.

 

But then when it comes to us not challenging for the league title you seem to look for excuses outside the club, I see a few issues within the club at the moment. Although honestly I cannot pinpoint exactly what they are, hopefully the club's management is ahead of me there.

 

This is what bothers me and I think many fans are with me here: We regularly beat excellent continental teams in the champions league. Most often we perform very well again the other three top teams. Those games are almost always very close, I believe we've had a bit of bad luck when playing against Man U and Chelsea lately. The top games are often decided by singular incidents and mistakes. It will always be like that and it's fair expect we won't always get 3 or even 1 point from United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

 

However, with the squad we have , and I can't emphasize that hard enough: THIS squad should not drop that many points against the rest of the 15 PL clubs. And yet we have done that for a lot of seasons now. It's easy for fans to get a bit impatient if there's a feeling things aren't improving. I for one have never experienced us winning the league and it is frustrating so see that the hugely talented squad we have right now are so far behind in the league. Particularly when we knock the likes of Chelsea, Barcelona, and knock on wood, Inter out of the european cup.

 

I still believe Rafa have what it takes to win us the domestic league. But you have acknowledge when things are wrong and I believe they are. Also I'm not sure money will solve it.

[Kop_90]

Its all about the quality of the players you bring in and that costs a lot of money these days.

Add a player the quality of Torres for the next 2 years and with the squad we already have then we may challenge.

Rafa has had to spend £20-£30 million on 4 or 5 players in the past.

We now need to consolidate and invest in a couple of quality players.

I think most would agree with a winger and forward may just give us a decent chance

 

Reina

Arbeloa Carra Agger ?

? Gerrard Masch Babel

? Torres

 

Squad players

 

Skrtel

Benayoun

Kuyt

Lucas

Nemeth

Insua

Riise

Aurelio

Pennant

 

Players i think will or may leave this year

 

Alonso

Finnan

Crouch

Voronin

Leto

Kewell

[Walrus]

.....

[R A Softlad]

[Dee]

[Guest pauld]

I'm with Kop_90 >> we have allowed the media/marketing circus to manipulate an achilles heal we have which is to win the league >> yes it is very important and yes we want to win it but not at the cost of our Soul >> we can never have a pact with the Devil. We should not forget what makes our Club unique >> since Shankly we have always been 'more than a club' >> we are the 'seething mass of humanity' >> we have a noble cause.

We'll win the League when we are ready and when we do >> we'll be humble and downplay the achievement though inwardly we'll be weeping and then we'll be content

Rafa is the one >> let's stand by our Man

[Falconhoof]

tears in my eyes

[Mike]

tears in my eyes

from that pm i sent you?

[Guz]

I'm with Kop_90 >> we have allowed the media/marketing circus to manipulate an achilles heal we have which is to win the league >> yes it is very important and yes we want to win it but not at the cost of our Soul >> we can never have a pact with the Devil. We should not forget what makes our Club unique >> since Shankly we have always been 'more than a club' >> we are the 'seething mass of humanity' >> we have a noble cause.

We'll win the League when we are ready and when we do >> we'll be humble and downplay the achievement though inwardly we'll be weeping and then we'll be content

Rafa is the one >> let's stand by our Man

 

It's too late. We sold our soul the moment Rick Parry was instructed to whore the club around the world in an effort to get more cash. We kid ourselves that we're somehow morally better than everyone else because we didnt have the structure to let a Glazer in or that an Abramovich type figure would tar any achievments by the club etc etc but this whole sorry mess has been brewing for a long time and we have no one but ourselves (the club as a whole, as a collective) to blame.

 

But going back to the original post. Yeah, we've had some f***ing brilliant moments in the last 10 years. We all want the league and to be back at the top for longer than a week but let's no devalue some of the great things we've done recently.

[Falconhoof]

from that pm i sent you?

 

yes, some interesting er niche tastes catered for in that little lot.

 

A lot of research material there Mike, thanks.

[Mike]

yes, some interesting er niche tastes catered for in that little lot.

 

A lot of research material there Mike, thanks.

 

[Kop_90]

It's too late. We sold our soul the moment Rick Parry was instructed to whore the club around the world in an effort to get more cash. We kid ourselves that we're somehow morally better than everyone else because we didnt have the structure to let a Glazer in or that an Abramovich type figure would tar any achievments by the club etc etc but this whole sorry mess has been brewing for a long time and we have no one but ourselves (the club as a whole, as a collective) to blame.

 

But going back to the original post. Yeah, we've had some f***ing brilliant moments in the last 10 years. We all want the league and to be back at the top for longer than a week but let's no devalue some of the great things we've done recently.

 

 

Thats the whole point, times change and we needed to change a few years back, we didn't and it's not worth moaning about now. Just move on and support the team now. We don't have to be better than everyone else.

Just don't lower ourselves as far as the gutter press / radio phone in's seem to be hoping for.

 

Football is about highs and lows and in 40 years the highs have been far better than the lows.

And if finishing 4th in the league is a low then god knows hows 90% of fans cope !!!!!!

[Lanus]

I am very happy with Rafa's performance as liverpool manager. I admit that there are times that I disagree with his decisions but I do understand that he knows better than me. I am well aware that I could never manage a team nevermind a team containing cisse, baros and traore etc to winning the CL.

 

It's downright annoying that the man is under pressure. Ive found myself to be very annoyed with Hicks again tho. I've finally lost patience with him and I think that whatever about the manager, the players, the expectations... this man has to go.. its obvious a prtest wont move him... we're talking a long term mass boycott.

[DazzlaJ]

 

darren.james@verticalgroup.co.uk

[Mike]

with your signature, current user name and former user name, i think ill swerve that one fernandos gonads.

[uncle bob]

A lot of what Kop 90 says makes good sense - However it skates over a lot of the managers deficencies this year - with the likely signing of Mascherano in the next few weeks he has spent over £150m in less than 4 years. I understand he has sold players also but he did inherit a top four team and he has bought a large number of average/squad players. He has now realised if what is reported to be true in press that for rest of season he will be playing his strongest team each week with obviously less rotation. Why now when its too late to challenge for league. Rafa was so wed to the rotation system that served him well in spain he bought quantity over quality.

 

I know players can tire if they play too often however players are very seldom tired when in a winning team. Also his rotation policy is reported to be based upon stats and what he see's on training ground rather than previous performance in first team. Players that have a good game are suddenly dropped for tactical reasons and it must be totally disheartening for such players. Rafa should make players fight for the shirt and keep it if they play well

 

Crouch was a prime example last season rotated out of form.

 

To you Rafa may bring us league success - I hope you are right however all the evidence too date points to a great CL manager, a good domestic cup manager and a poor premier league manager.

 

I also have supported the team for over 45 years and do remember both the good and not so good years but we always regarded the league as the most important competition and I still do - To me that is the Liverpool way and our main focus every year must be the league

[Guest pauld]

Guz

It's never too late mate

In prosperity our friends know us; in adversity we know our friends.

We have our traditions >> things we don't and will not forget >> and yes we have written new chapters in the last few years. I am fortunate to go back to '71 >> Dalgleish is the greatest footballer that I have ever seen but as a collective nothing compares to 25/05/05 and we the fans took the Club by the hand that night >> it mattered then and where we are a tad confused right now is that we seeking to give the team the same lead (week in - week out) as we did that night because we don't quite have the same strength of character on the pitch as we would like

Guz >> keep the faith mate

[DazzlaJ]

with your signature, current user name and former user name, i think ill swerve that one fernandos gonads.

 

Should I have just stuck with DazzlaJ then?

[Kahnee]

with your signature, current user name and former user name, i think ill swerve that one fernandos gonads.

 

Send it to me instead. I haven't researched anything decent for a while...