Winning the league and Rafa Benitez

[Guest Ant]

An argument we hear bashed about is how Benitez has had very little money to spend compared to Chelsea and Manchester United over the years, which to an extent is true.

 

So I ask those who believe he can win the league when he gets 'Major' investment I ask the following questions...

 

1: What will change?

 

IN MY OPINION Rafa will not change and has not changed his system and policy since he has been at the club, he has often played players in the wrong position, and played players severely off form. His variety of systems for different teams has left us inconsistant and his rotation policy hasn't helped either.

 

2: Will he play his £30 Million players?

 

IN MY OPINION It can't be proven, although you would like to think he would he rested Torres our best striker against one of the hardest teams away from home, and then again the next week v Birmingham? Why? Champions league priority perhaps? If we 'presume' that the most expensive players are the best players, then what evidence do you have that Benitez will indeed utilise them to their maxiumum potential? He hasn't this season, Benayoun has been dropped a few times despite being a key peformer this season, along with Babel and Crouch.

 

3: What system will he play?

 

IN MY OPINION it depends on the opposition, as history with Rafa shows he has multiple systems per opposition, regardless of he is playing against he has a variety of systems and I don't think he will stick to a winning formula and consistant team.

 

Granted sometimes the 'variety of systems works' you have Marsielle Away and Newcastle Away to thank for that, but of course look at the other systems ala Reading Away, Wigan at Home did they work?

 

4: Will he change his 'Stop the opposition first policy'?

 

IN MY OPINION No Wigan at home, 1 Upfront says it all really, he worries way to much about the opposition despite having players like Babel and Torres at his disposal, if you play 1 upfront against Wigan at home you don't deserve to finish 5th never mind 4th.

 

I could ask alot more, but I can't be bothered, but what I will do is compare Mr Mourinho and Mr Benitez credentials in the league and IF the DIC bought us the finances at their disposal.

 

_____________________________

 

The Case for Mourinho + Other pointless s***

 

Think about it, you look at our players in my opinion it's similar to Houllier, the players have lost faith and they need galvanized, they are a quality bunch of players and on their day (And I really do mean this considering we are Champions League Finalists and Winners) that we can win pretty much anyone in the league.

 

We have an excellent core that Mourinho would inherit and IN MY OPINION would require very little investment realistically, maybe about £30 Million.

 

We have alot of players that apparently aren't up to the job, but my opinion is that these players are up to the job, just not week in week out. This is where the rotation element comes into it, you think about it, what is our strongest squad?

 

At the beginning of the season I would of said.

 

Reina

 

Finnan Agger Carra Riise

Gerrard Alonso Mascherano Kewell

Torres Kuyt

 

Maybe I'm nuts, but I believe that side could of challenged for the league (Noticed how I used the word challenge).

 

Sadly we have been hampered by injury, so Agger and Alonso have missed a fair bit of the season. So lets jiggle the team about.

 

Reina

 

Finnan Agger Carra Riise

Benayoun Gerrard Mascherano Kewell

Torres Kuyt

 

Hmmm, still strong, Title Challenging, Easy I think..

 

Look at our squad there and have a look at our reserves..

 

Babel

Aurelio

Crouch

Lucas

Itandje

Voronin

Pennant

Leto

Arbeloa

+ More

 

Maybe I'm being abit simplistic in saying that our squad should be able to adapt into said position if need be, you know, striker for striker, midfielder for midfielder, If someone plays well, keep them there give them an incentive, let them 'enjoy' themselves so to speak.

 

Benitez believes however in player mentality, he wants clever players, intelligent, players that can play in different positions, accept that they won't play week in week out regardless wether they play good or bad, which has backfired on him.

 

His overuse of alot of our reserve players mixed in with a few first teamers has created a lack of consistancy and understanding, due to the perhaps 'over complication' of the tactics Benitez implements.

 

We can only draw comparisons with Arsenal, everyone knows how Arsenal play and they have played that way, 'pass and move' at it's finest. They play their best players when they can, stick to a consistant system, granted it didn't work last season, but it's been proved to work with time and effort, it is implemented from ground up, so when "X" player is injured, "x.1" replaces him not "a.3" as to speak, players know what their role is.

 

With Liverpool, there are systems for different team selections and different teams that are being played against, there is no room for time to gell at all, it's all rushed.

 

Our problem with rotation has been finding the right balance between 1st teamers and reserve players, it's all well and good having 1 or 2 players that are a 'liability' titles have been won with such players, Brown, O'Shea and Fletcher spring to mind for the Mancs.

 

But even then, it's all down to understanding and our reserve players mostly cannot adapt themselves to different systems. Maybe I'm reading too much into the time Benitez spends with his players on the side lines, he talks to them for a good 5 minutes, I don't think there is a manager that spends that amount of time, surely the substitute should know where he is going to play and how he is going to play when he gets called upon? But thats the whole thing, they don't, the systems and formations constantly change that they need this re-education to get to grips with the game.

 

I remember watching the Arsenal v Chelsea game in the pub after a Liverpool game and the way Arsenal played and enjoyed there football was brilliant to watch, consistant, fluent, beautiful football, and to think they finished below us makes me wonder.

 

I believed our reserve players now combined with our first teamers can 'challenge' for the league baring any complete f***ups, and I believe for the said reasons stated above that the way Benitez has utilised his squad has been why this hasn't happend.

 

Now Mr Jose Mourinho, I believe the DIC will buy us, it's simple. When they come however who is going to be the manager is the big question.

 

IF Benitez leaves and IF Mourinho gets the job, he won't have to do much really, He won't need imense amounts of money, the thing Rafa loves about his players the most is mentality, Jose has got to get that right first and formost with the playerrs, some of the players are just screaming for a bit of compasion or a hug from Rafa!

 

We need another striker to partner Torres, after that it's just implementing a system and installing both confidence and hunger to be honest and after that I think it's dooable, implemented correctly, now I haven't won the European Cup, and I never will, nor the league but. Mourinho has and Mourinho can do it again.

 

There is a strong belief within the Hardcore Rafa fanbase that he needs money, what are you expecting after that? We are facing real 'footballing' problems on the pitch, in the training ground and within the teams management.

 

If you think Rafa will win us the league considering all of the above then you are in for a nasty shock if he is here beyond August this year.

[Guest Snorky]

Give up son, it's just not worth the hassle.

[Chili Palmer]

Give up son, it's just not worth the hassle.

 

what way is that to teach the kid Kev??? he put alot of work into that!

 

Well done Ant, I don't agree with alot of it but good points well made.

[Guest Snorky]

what way is that to teach the kid Kev??? he put alot of work into that!

 

Well done Ant, I don't agree with alot of it but good points well made.

 

Maybe it's me whose given up.

 

On a night shift when all I want to do is get pished and forget everything.

[Logic]

Good post Ant.

[Chili Palmer]

Maybe it's me whose given up.

 

On a night shift when all I want to do is get pished and forget everything.

 

i know how you feel pal, but god knows its gotta get better soon!!

 

 

doesn't it?

[alias75]

Agree with a lot of what you posted there, im still a Rafa fan but in 3 years in the PL you have to wonder what has he learnt about this league and how has he adapted? The true answer is he hasnt changed a whole lot which is worrying because he does make mistakes, if he learnt from those mistakes you could make an argument for sticking with him but in 3 years hes making the same mistakes and shows no sign of changing.

 

2: Will he play his £30 Million players?

 

I disagree with you here, i think theres ample evidence that he plays his better players 95% of the time so i think its fair to assume if we had more players of the level of Torres, Gerrard etc.. they'd play regularly. Torres has missed 2 games when fit and 1 of those was after he played 2 games in a week for Spain and picked up a knock in one of those games.

 

I think if we had better options for certain positions we'd rotate less.

 

I agree with the general point that he over complicates things. He has to understand by now that the PL isnt a game of chess like La Liga or the CL he doesnt have to outwit these tactical geniuses. The PL is all about motivating your players and getting the best out of them week after week, and hes not been great at doing that.

[Kuyt-fever]

I'm not going to read all of that. Would a summary be Rafa out ,Jose in. We need a system. We're going backwards in the league. He's taken us far as possible. Jose I think you're hot. He favours quantity over quality , rotation , Jamie Redknapp is right etc?

[Guest Ant]

I'm not going to read all of that. Would a summary be Rafa out ,Jose in. We need a system. We're going backwards in the league. He's taken us far as possible. Jose I think you're hot. He favours quantity over quality , rotation , Jamie Redknapp is right etc?

 

Yes with abirra meat.

[Cobs]

15 words or less?

[AmassiveSlot]

i think the players are to blame as much as the magager and i think some how we need to pump some team spirit back into the team..... At this low point we need to gain a seige mentality.. Us against them and the whole of LFC TOGETHER as one force... not all these distractions!......Even though i do HATE G&H.

 

 

We will come through this low spell and im sure it will make us a stronger team.

[Guest Ant]

15 words or less?

 

Benitez will not win us the league.

 

Ever

 

In a million-squillion years.

[CaptainXabi]

15 words or less?

Rafa's lost the plot. More money won't help. Sign Mourinho.

[Guest spk]

another b******s post. honestly either add your support or move on, youre getting tediously predictable

[Guest ziggystardust]

id rather have hiddink

[kenny7]

Agree to a degree with Ant, in that a change of manager may progress us further. However I would like to know why Mourinho is such a favorite? In my eye's yes he a good motivator, but for me he doesn't build for the future as well as being successful, whilst investing in the 1st team, chelsea's reserves and youth teams seemed to get neglected unde his reign, if he'd stayed any longer, who ever followed him woul have some serious re-building of the first team. As a result he wouldn't be my choice I'd want someone who could motivate, yet like Rafa had a healthy in put into our future, maybe the answer is to get a number 2 the players can relate to and respond to, leaving Rafa to build an empire.

[Guest Si]

Why does anyone who is still behind Benitez have to justify their support on a weekly basis around here?

[surf]

Good post Ant, well thought out and well written.

[Chili Palmer]

Why does anyone who is still behind Benitez have to justify their support on a weekly basis around here?

 

because its easier to have one person to blame than accept that the club is in crisis from top to bottom.

 

new manager = yanks gone, new manager = Carra not hoofing or handing out pens every 2 games, new manager = Crouch being able to head the ball...etc etc

 

come on Si, know your ynwa forum sonny

[Armin_Tamzarian]

Ant, I don't believe its just about money and wouldn't argue he's had 'no money to spend' however:

 

So I ask those who believe he can win the league when he gets 'Major' investment I ask the following questions...

 

1: What will change?

 

The clean sheets run in season 06 proved Benitez can construct one key pillar of a Championship winning team, a sound defense. Not only sound but excellent, well drilled, mean. As good as anything which has been seen at Anfield in 20 years.

 

He's also demonstrated the ability to create an excellent midfield unit. Using classy passers such as Alonso, the best midfield passer since Molby. Freeing Gerrard to play where he does the most damage. It's common for fans to mock Rafa's mantra of 'controlling the game' but thats exactly what his midfield has done, even against the likes of United and Chelsea. Think of the times recently where we've outplayed both of them, created more chances but failed to win the game? Be honest, even without the red tinted specs on there are examples in the past 2 years where we beat them in every area but the crucial one, goals scored. That was a result of the defence and midfield the manager had created.

 

The third part is the most expensive to sort, unless you're very canny or get lucky. It's the point at which the gap between our side and those above is most acute. Rafa's strike force is inadequate, only Torres would get into the United or Chelsea sides and the likes of Voronin wouldn't make a bench at any of the other 3 best squads. Benitez has rebuilt from the back and made good strides in defence and attack but to bring our strikeforce up to top levels he either needs Wenger time or Ferguson/Grant resources. Either he's allowed to invest in younger, cheaper inexperienced strikers like Adebayor and mould them over a couple of seasons (Babel is his attempt to do this but its we're too impatient for that and he'll lose his job for not playing him every week) or he has to stop making the compromises that see us bring an over the hill Morientes or a fatally flawed Crouch into the side for less money than the others are spending. Or he gets lucky and a gamble at a lower or medium level comes off, Berbatov for instance.

 

If luck and time can't be legislated for, money could. Money brings the attacking flair and accuracy that see's side take its chances. Once that happens the opposition has no choice but to throw itself against a Benitez midfield and defence and that's when they really come into their own. Think of Juve in 05, a team better than us over most areas of the pitch but once we took our chance they fell.

 

2: Will he play his £30 Million players?

 

Rotation is a matter of fact now at all the big clubs. Where was Adebayor or Flamini yesterday. Is Wenger an idiot? You can have the argument if you like but it's a facile one. Rafa will always rotate and he'll point to the performance of his sides at the business end of the season, Istanbul, Cardiff etc as proof he knows what he's doing. Give him better quality to do it with and maybe we'll do better at the beginning as well. Any manager that comes in and plays his top 11 every week in order to placate an impatient crowd would be a disaster. They aren't machines and they tire and get injured. If Rafa had been in charge when Owen or Kewell were developing as young players they wouldn't have as many miles on the clock today but maybe their top level careers would've lasted a few years longer. To everyones benefit.

 

3: What system will he play?

 

You want him to stick to one magic formula, a 'settled pattern of play'. This is a similar argument to rotation because it implies he picks the same players each week. Say we did that, same 4-4-2. How easy would it be for opposition managers to predict and negate our system. Don't forget the times his flexibility works, remember going to Newcastle and playing 3-5-2, Roeder, a lousy manager but a respected tactical reader of the game couldn't get to grips with it and neither could his side. Why? Because they'd been preparing for 451 all week. Now next week it didn't work so there's room for argument, neverthless if the players are intelligent enough I'd rather we could play 3 or 4 ways to keep the opposition guessing.

 

4: Will he change his 'Stop the opposition first policy'?

 

As supporters we all crave goals and the euphoria they bring. We're all skewed to seeing a side like the 88 team, not only winning but taking the piss whilst they're at it. Sweeping opponents away imperiously. I'd love to see that. The reality is however that half of the game depends on preventing the other team scoring, if you can't do that it doesn't matter how well you play. Do you think Mourinho didn't set up his Chelsea team frequently to stifle the opposition, relying on superior strikers to take one of the handful of chances created? You weren't paying attention when he won all those dire games 1-0? That's how he got his first title. Half the time his marquee players, Robben or Duff weren't in the game. It was Makalele and co that kept the wins coming.

 

The grass is always greener on the other side. Mourinho is happy to send out a team to play dour, unattractive football as long as he gets the result.

[Guest Snorky]

Mourinho is happy to send out a team to play dour, unattractive football as long as he gets the result.

 

And Rafa is happy to send out a team to play dour, unattractive football and doesn't get results.

[surf]

The grass is always greener on the other side. Mourinho is happy to send out a team to play dour, unattractive football as long as he gets the result.

 

I'm happy to see dour, unattractive football, if it gets results.

[Tones]

I'm happy to see dour, unattractive football, if it gets results.

 

Id take that right now.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Mourinho is a c***.

 

No Liverpool fan should want that bumfaced buffoon at our club.

[Guest Ant]

Mourinho is a c***.

 

No Liverpool fan should want that bumfaced buffoon at our club.

 

Not if it meant us winning the league?