have our expectations dropped

[Gunga Din]

reading through this forum, and the two sides of the argument as to whether we are doing well enough and making the progress we need to, i just wonder if our standards and expectations have slowly dropped. for so long, we were expecting the team to challenge for the title, as well as challenge in Europe. but since about 1992, we have put in maybe one and a half title challenges, Evans should have won the league one year in teh 90's, until David James got a bout of teh head staggers and we blew it. then Houllier amde a run at it in 2002, but we fell short after Arsenal won about telvety games in a row andwe came second.

 

but now, we seem to be just accepting that a top 4 without a challenge at the title is acceptable. the excuses and apologies coming out from some posters because they cant bring themselves to say that its not good baffles me. its like slowly over time the expectations of what is an accetable level for Liverpool FC to be competing at has dropped. se seem to have accepted the fact that about 3rd or 4th is our level. there are people on this forum who seem physicaly incapable of criticising anyone in the team orthe management. doing this doesnt make you a super fan, it makes you a mug.

[fred milne]

but now, we seem to be just accepting that a top 4 without a challenge at the title is acceptable. the excuses and apologies coming out from some posters because they cant bring themselves to say that its not good baffles me. its like slowly over time the expectations of what is an accetable level for Liverpool FC to be competing at has dropped. se seem to have accepted the fact that about 3rd or 4th is our level. there are people on this forum who seem physicaly incapable of criticising anyone in the team orthe management. doing this doesnt make you a super fan, it makes you a mug.

I don't see us being out of contention for the title.

[Raj]

So what's the answer?

[Guest Ant]

reading through this forum, and the two sides of the argument as to whether we are doing well enough and making the progress we need to, i just wonder if our standards and expectations have slowly dropped. for so long, we were expecting the team to challenge for the title, as well as challenge in Europe. but since about 1992, we have put in maybe one and a half title challenges, Evans should have won the league one year in teh 90's, until David James got a bout of teh head staggers and we blew it. then Houllier amde a run at it in 2002, but we fell short after Arsenal won about telvety games in a row andwe came second.

 

but now, we seem to be just accepting that a top 4 without a challenge at the title is acceptable. the excuses and apologies coming out from some posters because they cant bring themselves to say that its not good baffles me. its like slowly over time the expectations of what is an accetable level for Liverpool FC to be competing at has dropped. se seem to have accepted the fact that about 3rd or 4th is our level. there are people on this forum who seem physicaly incapable of criticising anyone in the team orthe management. doing this doesnt make you a super fan, it makes you a mug.

 

 

Well Said

[Guest Kaizer]

Are the mancs and Chelsea out of the title race?

[johngibo YPC]

i think everyone still wants and expects Liverpool to be challenging for and winning titles.

There is just a difference in opinion in whether Rafa can succeed in it

I have yet to see a 'i'll be made up if we finish 4th' post

[Gunga Din]

I don't see us being out of contention for the title.

 

i think we are, i think we are light yeras behind our rivals in terms of players and team development. Arsenal shows us up yesterday, how anyone fails to see that is beyond me. too many of our fans are living in a world of make believe

[Raj]

So does repeating the same thing endlessly.

 

C'mon guys, we know where you stand, but all I seem to see is the same recycled statements after each game. This seems to happen irrespective of the result or performance. We all know that there are problems with team and individual performance. There is a lack of confidence and an abundance of injuries. Its all having an effect on us.

[Stevie H]

I don't see us being out of contention for the title.

neither do i.

[pipnasty]

But the main emphasis of the 'apologists' stance is that we are still in October and only six points behind the greatest team of all time ever in the world ever. I don't really see what the problem with that is yet. Yes, we need to improve but that alone is not enough to want to sack Rafa.

 

I honestly do not think that anybody is advocating that 4th position be a pre-season goal.

[Huyton_Red]

reading through this forum, and the two sides of the argument as to whether we are doing well enough and making the progress we need to, i just wonder if our standards and expectations have slowly dropped. for so long, we were expecting the team to challenge for the title, as well as challenge in Europe. but since about 1992, we have put in maybe one and a half title challenges, Evans should have won the league one year in teh 90's, until David James got a bout of teh head staggers and we blew it. then Houllier amde a run at it in 2002, but we fell short after Arsenal won about telvety games in a row andwe came second.

 

but now, we seem to be just accepting that a top 4 without a challenge at the title is acceptable. the excuses and apologies coming out from some posters because they cant bring themselves to say that its not good baffles me. its like slowly over time the expectations of what is an accetable level for Liverpool FC to be competing at has dropped. se seem to have accepted the fact that about 3rd or 4th is our level. there are people on this forum who seem physicaly incapable of criticising anyone in the team orthe management. doing this doesnt make you a super fan, it makes you a mug.

 

No wayne, we were accepting worthington/european/FA cup finals without a challenge.

 

As for this season, the first season our manager has been able to spend a few quid getting near the levels the other three managers can spend we are not out of any title race and have not lost a game yet in the league either.

 

I understand why you are upset but you are writing this season off way to early

[Stevie H]

i think we are, i think we are light yeras behind our rivals in terms of players and team development. Arsenal shows us up yesterday, how anyone fails to see that is beyond me. too many of our fans are living in a world of make believe

they play great football, it's true. amazing that they didn't spank us erally eh?

[Guest Ant]

Are the mancs and Chelsea out of the title race?

 

The Mancs are deffo not

 

Chelsea aren't either, but our style of play everything about us is substandard

[Mike]

I don't see us being out of contention for the title.

wed have to improve massively to be in contention for the title...massively.

[fred milne]

i think we are, i think we are light yeras behind our rivals in terms of players and team development. Arsenal shows us up yesterday, how anyone fails to see that is beyond me. too many of our fans are living in a world of make believe

Arsenal may play silkier football than us but that doesn't mean we are out of contention. We have strong away record and are still unbeaten.

 

My concern is over keeping our big players fit (i.e. Reina, Carragher, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres) which we have struggled to do so far.

[Gunga Din]

Arsenal may play silkier football than us but that doesn't mean we are out of contention. We have strong away record and are still unbeaten.

 

Arsenal dont just play better football, they are a better team, a far better team. and as for not being beaten, this argument would hold a bit aof water if we actually wona few games, we've only won half our games and 20% of home games. i'd rather we lost 3 and won 2 more, at least then we'd have a point more than we have now.

 

how can people not see how much inferior we are to the teams who will challenge for the title? i'm gonna stick my neck out and say we wont be within 20 points of the eventual winners this season

[Armin_Tamzarian]

but now, we seem to be just accepting that a top 4 without a challenge at the title is acceptable. the excuses and apologies coming out from some posters because they cant bring themselves to say that its not good baffles me. its like slowly over time the expectations of what is an accetable level for Liverpool FC to be competing at has dropped. se seem to have accepted the fact that about 3rd or 4th is our level. there are people on this forum who seem physicaly incapable of criticising anyone in the team orthe management. doing this doesnt make you a super fan, it makes you a mug.

 

Are they excuses and apologies or simply judgments and opinions? I can't speak for others but I've no problem criticising the team or manager when they give a performance such as Marseille. It was terrible, dreadful stuff. Unacceptable if you prefer. However I've also no problem looking at yesterdays result in the context of where the two teams are coming from at that moment in the season. We may not have won yesterday, we may have been frequently outpassed and made to chase the ball but we improved on the previous few performances and why shouldn't that improvement be recognised? We were playing a side that were flying, 12 wins on the bounce including a midweek goal fest in Europe whilst we were losing in Turkey.

 

There are weaknesses and flaws in the side and we miss key performers but yesterday's performance would've beaten Birmingham or Spurs, if they'd managed that we'd all be feeling better. The season is a marathon and at the moment we've not yet lost too much ground. I'm not happy to be in sixth and there's things I'd change if I could but the manager wouldn't be one of them.

[Stevie H]

Arsenal dont just play better football, they are a better team, a far better team. and as for not being beaten, this argument would hold a bit aof water if we actually wona few games, we've only won half our games and 20% of home games. i'd rather we lost 3 and won 2 more, at least then we'd have a point more than we have now.

 

how can people not see how much inferior we are to the teams who will challenge for the title? i'm gonna stick my neck out and say we wont be within 20 points of the eventual winners this season

 

1. we're unbeaten, counts a lot psychologically.

2. our away form is good

3. we're in touch at the top despite not playing well and having injuries

4. we won't play s*** all season.

 

there are ground for optimism.

[Mike]

well we're 6 points back after 10 so if things carry on as they are we will be 20 ish points behind.

thats why i say we will have to improve massively to be in contention.

playing as we are now will not get us anywhere close. we aren't scoring from open play for a start.

[Mike]

1. we're unbeaten, counts a lot psychologically.

2. our away form is good

3. we're in touch at the top despite not playing well and having injuries

4. we won't play s*** all season.

 

there are ground for optimism.

 

that is only a hope though isn't it.

[Gunga Din]

Are they excuses and apologies or simply judgments and opinions? I can't speak for others but I've no problem criticising the team or manager when they give a performance such as Marseille. It was terrible, dreadful stuff. Unacceptable if you prefer. However I've also no problem looking at yesterdays result in the context of where the two teams are coming from at that moment in the season. We may not have won yesterday, we may have been frequently outpassed and made to chase the ball but we improved on the previous few performances and why shouldn't that improvement be recognised? We were playing a side that were flying, 12 wins on the bounce including a midweek goal fest in Europe whilst we were losing in Turkey.

 

There are weaknesses and flaws in the side and we miss key performers but yesterday's performance would've beaten Birmingham or Spurs, if they'd managed that we'd all be feeling better. The season is a marathon and at the moment we've not yet lost too much ground. I'm not happy to be in sixth and there's things I'd change if I could but the manager wouldn't be one of them.

 

 

i've no problem with yestersday performance, i thought the effort was there. my problem is the fact that we are no better than we were when Rafa took over, anmdf yesterday Arsenal gave us the run arround. we've spent a fortune on playere who never play or who play out of position, we rotate excessively so that all our players seem to be out of form or injured, possible because they arent match fit due to lack of agmes, and the players seem to be playing for the most part without a game plan. thats why i'm annoyed and wound up about us, not on yesterdays performance as such.

[Raj]

well we're 6 points back after 10 so if things carry on as they are we will be 20 ish points behind.

 

That works on the basis that Man Utd and Arsenal will maintain their present form, which is not a given.

[Guest Kaizer]

The Mancs are deffo not

 

Chelsea aren't either, but our style of play everything about us is substandard

 

And still we are even if we win our game in hand will be only three points behind the mancs and two above Chelsea.

[johngibo YPC]

i've no problem with yestersday performance, i thought the effort was there. my problem is the fact that we are no better than we were when Rafa took over, anmdf yesterday Arsenal gave us the run arround. we've spent a fortune on playere who never play or who play out of position, we rotate excessively so that all our players seem to be out of form or injured, possible because they arent match fit due to lack of agmes, and the players seem to be playing for the most part without a game plan. thats why i'm annoyed and wound up about us, not on yesterdays performance as such.

 

i think you have forgotten how seriously depressing Houlliers last season was

[John am Rhein]

reading through this forum, and the two sides of the argument as to whether we are doing well enough and making the progress we need to, i just wonder if our standards and expectations have slowly dropped. for so long, we were expecting the team to challenge for the title, as well as challenge in Europe. but since about 1992, we have put in maybe one and a half title challenges, Evans should have won the league one year in teh 90's, until David James got a bout of teh head staggers and we blew it. then Houllier amde a run at it in 2002, but we fell short after Arsenal won about telvety games in a row andwe came second.

 

but now, we seem to be just accepting that a top 4 without a challenge at the title is acceptable. the excuses and apologies coming out from some posters because they cant bring themselves to say that its not good baffles me. its like slowly over time the expectations of what is an accetable level for Liverpool FC to be competing at has dropped. se seem to have accepted the fact that about 3rd or 4th is our level. there are people on this forum who seem physicaly incapable of criticising anyone in the team orthe management. doing this doesnt make you a super fan, it makes you a mug.

 

I've never really understood this 'acceptable' idea, with its implication that anything that falls short of this is 'not acceptable'. What does this mean exactly?

 

Similarly, is 'expectations' meant literally (this is what's expected) or is it some journalist-like misuse of language?

 

Certainly, as your own post shows, claiming that a challenge for the title is an 'expectation' is totally unrealistic given the rarity with which that has happened over the last 20 years.