We have the players to play more of a passing game...

[alias75]

The one things thats disappointed me so much about the way we've played this season is our movement off the ball and how poorly we pass it. We need players that are comfortable in possession and comfortable receiving the ball in tight situations. The annoying thing is we have those players, but not enough of them play regularly.

 

So who are the players that prevent us from playing a good passing game?

 

Riise, Hyppia, Carragher, Sissoko, Kuyt id say these are the worst culprits in terms of hoofing it needlessly and giving it away either due to a poor touch or poor passing. Now im not saying these should never play they bring other attributes to the team that we need but when you start a game with 4 or 5 of these in the team its always going to be tough.

 

But look at this possible team we could select, 8 or 9 of these are comfortable on the ball and good passers.

 

.............................Reina............................

 

Finnan.........Carragher......Agger...............Arbeloa

 

 

Gerrard...........Mascherano...Alonso.........Benayoun

 

 

.......................Torres........Babel......................

 

 

Thats a team with players that are comfortable on the ball, you have good technical players plus the steel of Mascherano and Carragher in there too, in reserve we have Lucas, Veronin, Crouch? that are also pretty good technically. of course we havent been able to select some of these players for a while, but we have the personnel to play better football but we need them all to play together, having 4 or 5 poor passers in the team just isnt working.

[Bootle Buck]

Many good points made. It never seems like our attacking players look like the are in sinc with each other. Lots of graft and endeavor but very little cutting edge. When is the last time we played anyone wide that looked natural in that position? It's always players who prefer to play inside that are stuck out there. Our fullbacks are far too static while our whole defence can't bring the ball out with any confidence apart from Agger who we have missed immensely.

[nb]

Agreed. This ideas together with a couple of players in come January and I think we'll be fine. It`s refreshing to read something constructive, not just "sack rafa"-posts....

[Guest Finnan3]

You know who is one of the worst for passing?

 

 

Kuyt

 

 

f***ing awful

[nb]

You know who is one of the worst for passing?

Kuyt

f***ing awful

 

Kuyt is such a frustrating player IMO. Lots of effort, but his passing lets him down and all his best moves are made miles away from the goal. He`s a striker, but never seems to be in a position to actually hit the target,

[alias75]

Agree it isnt just poor passing its losing it in tight situations due to a heavy touch or simply lack of confidence, dont want to keep harping back to Arsenal but there you had at least 9 of the 11 players that were comfortable taking the ball under pressure and happy to give it to a team mate that was marked cos they knew hed keep it, because theres faith in your team mates theres more movement off the ball because you dont expect to lose it.

 

We have probably 4 or 5 regular 1st teamers that are simply poor technical players, they arent comfortable on the ball, have a poor touch and hoof it instead of passing it, theres then maybe 2 or 3 that are above average like Finnan, or Mascherano or Arbeloa not great but acceptable, then theres maybe 3 or 4 that have good technique.

 

Rafa picks the team so i guess he has to shoulder some of the blame, he knows the strengths and weaknesses of the players if you have 4 or 5 poor passes in the team is it any surprise the passing is poor, if you have 4 or 5 with a poor touch is it any surprise things break down all the time and therefore the movement off the ball is poor. But we have the players here to play a better brand of football.

[nb]

Agree it isnt just poor passing its losing it in tight situations due to a heavy touch or simply lack of confidence, dont want to keep harping back to Arsenal but there you had at least 9 of the 11 players that were comfortable taking the ball under pressure and happy to give it to a team mate that was marked cos they knew hed keep it, because theres faith in your team mates theres more movement off the ball because you dont expect to lose it.

 

We have probably 4 or 5 regular 1st teamers that are simply poor technical players, they arent comfortable on the ball, have a poor touch and hoof it instead of passing it, theres then maybe 2 or 3 that are above average like Finnan, or Mascherano or Arbeloa not great but acceptable, then theres maybe 3 or 4 that have good technique.

 

Rafa picks the team so i guess he has to shoulder some of the blame, he knows the strengths and weaknesses of the players if you have 4 or 5 poor passes in the team is it any surprise the passing is poor, if you have 4 or 5 with a poor touch is it any surprise things break down all the time and therefore the movement off the ball is poor. But we have the players here to play a better brand of football.

 

Somehow I think Rafa`s idea is to play a totally different style of football than what we saw today (there were signs of that early in the season IMO), but injuries to Agger and Alonso together with the poor form of some key players are letting him down. Ideally, I think Rafa sees Gerrard as anything but the ideal choice as playmaker in the middle, but fan preassure makes him playing him there...

[Coyler]

Somehow I think Rafa`s idea is to play a totally different style of football than what we saw today (there were signs of that early in the season IMO), but injuries to Agger and Alonso together with the poor form of some key players are letting him down. Ideally, I think Rafa sees Gerrard as anything but the ideal choice as playmaker in the middle, but fan preassure makes him playing him there...

Agree with all of that that except I'm not sure if it's fan pressure.

[alias75]

Somehow I think Rafa`s idea is to play a totally different style of football than what we saw today (there were signs of that early in the season IMO), but injuries to Agger and Alonso together with the poor form of some key players are letting him down. Ideally, I think Rafa sees Gerrard as anything but the ideal choice as playmaker in the middle, but fan preassure makes him playing him there...

 

Agree with that in Agger, Alonso and Torres we're missing our 3 best technical players from midfield, defence, and attack. But you compare Rafa with someone like Wenger and you have to believe they look for different things first and foremost in a player. Rafa always talks about how much running players do rather than how much they actually contributed to the team in creating or scoring goals. I know his style at Valencia relied on a very high tempo pressing game that needed very good fitness levels but those players were very good technically too, fitness in a professional footballer shouldnt be a problem but its hard to coach technique and a good first touch to a player thats been a pro for so many years without it improving.

 

If you look at the signings of players like Agger,Alonso, Babel, Benayoun, Tores you have to believe the desire to play a better style of football is there because these are all excellent technical players, but we need to see them all playing in the same team together.

[nb]

Agree with all of that that except I'm not sure if it's fan pressure.

 

You`re probably right, but I don`t think Gerrard would have been in Rafa`s dream 11 if external things (background, standing among supporters and media, etc) did not influence.

[Swipe]

We're gonna struggle when Torres isn't available. He's so much better than are other options upfront it's untrue.

 

None of the other combinations look any good at all.

[meepins]

I'm starting to agree with Elisha about Mascherano. 17 m ?! for a player who isn't interested in getting involved in a must win game and his passing hasn't been up to much from what I've seen lately. I'm sure there are much cheaper players who can play the Didi Hamann role.

[Earl Hafler]

You know who is one of the worst for passing?

Kuyt

f***ing awful

 

 

I think it looks worse when he plays alongside Voronin. Awful partnership. Both players are look more comfortable in a deeper position and it's like Fowler and Crouch for lack of pace.

 

If Torres is injured we should play Babel centrally.

 

.........Kuyt / Benayoun------Babel-----

-------------Torres---------

 

Is how i'd like to see our forwards line up anyway.

[alias75]

I'm starting to agree with Elisha about Mascherano. 17 m ?! for a player who isn't interested in getting involved in a must win game and his passing hasn't been up to much from what I've seen lately. I'm sure there are much cheaper players who can play the Didi Hamann role.

 

I think your wrong, ive followed Mascherano's career for a long time and hes the best possible option we could have for that position, i think the problem isnt Mascherano its the players hes playing with, for Argentina his job is simple win it and give it to the flair players, hes playing with 8 or 9 players that are all comfortable on the ball, its his job to protect the defence win it back and give it simple but here at Liverpool he has 4 or 5 players that are worse than him technically and that affects his game too.

 

I think you'd find if we really did improve as a team and had better players in there with him his game would step up a level too, it comes back to the basic fact that we have 4 or 5 players regularly in our first team that are poor players technically and that has a knock on effect on the others, i dont care if you have Messi or Ronaldinho in the side if you have Riise hoofing it towards you all the time your not going to be as effective.

 

Those players that are really poor technically like Riise, Carra, Hyppia, Sissoko, Kuyt are dragging everyone else down with them.

[nb]

Agree with that in Agger, Alonso and Torres we're missing our 3 best technical players from midfield, defence, and attack. But you compare Rafa with someone like Wenger and you have to believe they look for different things first and foremost in a player. Rafa always talks about how much running players do rather than how much they actually contributed to the team in creating or scoring goals. I know his style at Valencia relied on a very high tempo pressing game that needed very good fitness levels but those players were very good technically too, fitness in a professional footballer shouldnt be a problem but its hard to coach technique and a good first touch to a player thats been a pro for so many years without it improving.

 

If you look at the signings of players like Agger,Alonso, Babel, Benayoun, Tores you have to believe the desire to play a better style of football is there because these are all excellent technical players, but we need to see them all playing in the same team together.

 

 

There`s certainly differences in how Wenger and Rafa approaches the game (and I must admit to being a fan of Wenger`s approach, but there`s not many like him actually succeeding in world football), but as you say: Some of Rafa`s purchases indicates that he wants to play a different brand of football. Remember that some of the players lacking in skill are not bought by Rafa (not replaces due to different factors) and that most players bought after he received substantial financial backing are actually to new to be judged here. I think that when the injured players returns (and hopefully stays fit) and the new players have bedded in, we will see the real "rafa`s Liverpool". A team where players like Aurelio, Agger, Alonso, Babel, Benayon and Torres will make sure the technical level is good enough. I just hope that stupid critizism from "expert" former players and pundits won`t make him leave us before he gets that far....

[Bailo]

You know who is one of the worst for passing?

Kuyt

f***ing awful

He barely put a pass wrong tonight!

[Benzo-13]

This team:

 

Reina

Finnan

Aurelio

Carragher

Agger

Xabi Alonso

Mascherano

Gerrard

Kewell

Kuyt/Babel

Torres

 

is well capable of beating anything out there plus it's back-up. Just hasn't been fit. We've been unbalanced due to a deficency on the left side

Edited October 24, 2007 by Benzo-13

[Guest Finnan3]

He barely put a pass wrong tonight!

 

You are joking? Watch the tape back tonight.

[Guest sniffer]

I'm starting to agree with Elisha about Mascherano. 17 m ?! for a player who isn't interested in getting involved in a must win game and his passing hasn't been up to much from what I've seen lately. I'm sure there are much cheaper players who can play the Didi Hamann role.

 

Do me a favour. He's played three games in a week including one in South America!!

[alias75]

This team:

 

Reina

Finnan

Aurelio

Carragher

Agger

Xabi Alonso

Mascherano

Gerrard

Kewell

Kuyt/Babel

Torres

 

is well capable of beating anything out there plus it's back-up. Just hasn't been fit. We've been unbalanced due to a deficency on the left side

 

Correct plus we have Lucas, Benayoun, Crouch, in reserve that are also very good technical players, good passers and comfortable in posession. So the players are there, but if its a 50/50 split between poor technical players and good/very good technical players in the starting 11 those poor players will drag everyone down with them.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

You are joking? Watch the tape back tonight.

 

is right

[meepins]

Do me a favour. He's played three games in a week including one in South America!!

I know but come on if he was fatigued do you think Rafa would have played him given how meticulous he is about fitness. I was starting to see shades of Roy Keane in Mascher but he needs to do more to get the team going and be involved in dictating the play. It's what his position requires of him.

[Guest sniffer]

I know but come on if he was fatigued do you think Rafa would have played him given how meticulous he is about fitness. I was starting to see shades of Roy Keane in Mascher but he needs to do more to get the team going and be involved in dictating the play. It's what his position requires of him.

 

If he has a choice between Mascher and Momo, who do you think he would pick???!

[meepins]

If he has a choice between Mascher and Momo, who do you think he would pick???!

I honestly can't say

[Guest sniffer]

I honestly can't say

 

In which case, you have been watching the previous two games with your eyes shut.