Carragher

[D.Boon]

Stop f***ing lumping it forward every time you get it.

 

I was surprised at how much more accomplished Hyypia is with his passing compared to Carra last night.

 

Carra and Reina need a little reminder of the benefits of building from the back me thinks

[Huyton_Red]

Stop f***ing lumping it forward every time you get it.

 

I was surprised at how much more accomplished Hyypia is with his passing compared to Carra last night.

 

Carra and Reina need a little reminder of the benefits of building from the back me thinks

 

ha ha ha ha

 

Jesus wept, hyppia accomplished with his passing

 

Now I have heard it all. Sami's distribution is awful, always has been, he has one good pass in ten, in the dark days of houllier when it was all unraveling he was cheif culprit of the 'hit the ball as long and as high as you can to no one' policy we introduced for a few months

[D.Boon]

ha ha ha ha

 

Jesus wept, hyppia accomplished with his passing

 

Now I have heard it all. Sami's distribution is awful, always has been, he has one good pass in ten, in the dark days of houllier when it was all unraveling he was cheif culprit of the 'hit the ball as long and as high as you can to no one' policy we introduced for a few months

 

You faied to highlight the 'last night' bit conveniently.

 

Hyypia passed it well last night. Carra smacked it 50 yards virtually without exception

[JohnBonham]

Don´t you know that critizising Carra on this forum is as accepted as drawing a cartoon of Mohamed in Afghanistan

[So Cal Red]

Gack - i agree that Carra has been hoofing the ball forward A LOT this season... same goes w/ Reina as you mentioned.

 

hopefully its something Rafa has (or will) address thoroughly b/c we have been conceding possession very cheaply lately... better ball retention please!

[Ronnie Whelan]

How much of 'hoofing' the ball forward is actually clearing our lines and how much is actually trying to play a long ball to our forwards?

[Eskimo]

ha ha ha ha

 

Jesus wept, hyppia accomplished with his passing

 

Now I have heard it all. Sami's distribution is awful, always has been, he has one good pass in ten, in the dark days of houllier when it was all unraveling he was cheif culprit of the 'hit the ball as long and as high as you can to no one' policy we introduced for a few months

 

IIRC a couple of seasons back Sami's stats on long ball completion were very high.

 

Not sure what's happening to Reina at the moment, seems to opt for a long punt at every opportunity. I guess it has something to do with Torres i.e. ball over the top and utilize his pace, which is fine but some variation wouldn't go a miss.

[Smith]

How much of 'hoofing' the ball forward is actually clearing our lines and how much is actually trying to play a long ball to our forwards?

 

About 86%.

 

Seriously though, way too much of the latter.

[Stevie H]

carra didn't look match fit last night.

[Coyler]

I don't know. If I was Carragher or Reina and I had seen Finnan get caught in the first minute and seen that there was nobody in midfield or out on the wing capable of keeping the ball away from Porto or passing it to someone in red I'd be clearing my lines first and foremost too. Nothing about utilizing Torres's pace (which seemed to have totally deserted him last night, to be honest).

[Zoob]

How much of 'hoofing' the ball forward is actually clearing our lines and how much is actually trying to play a long ball to our forwards?

 

Strange thing about last night is that a lot of the time last night, it seemed to be neither.

 

There were many times last night when we had either Reina, Carragher or Hyypia under no pressure, and they hoofed the ball, basically straight back to Porto - not within 25 yards of any of our players. Not too much point in clearing our lines just so we can have Porto coming right back at us, and long balls have to be thought out a bit more than that. When Riise plays, he tends to do the same thing. I can't remember Arbeloa hoofing the ball or the time, nor Finnan.

[mercury]

There was a bit of a panic in the team and lacking an outlet in the centre - re the form of our central pairing last night - didn't help either.

Edited September 19, 2007 by mercury

[Rimbeux]

It seems a reaction to a bit of pressure, rather than take the sting out of the game and knock it about a bit when they've retreated it's like take no chances at all, but it gives the ball back. Dont see it too much at home. We should be good enough to take the ball with a man five yards away and find another red. There seemed to be no belief in our ability to pass the ball, same at Pompey, same at many away grounds over the recent past.

[Zoob]

It seems a reaction to a bit of pressure, rather than take the sting out of the game and knock it about a bit when they've retreated it's like take no chances at all, but it gives the ball back. Dont see it too much at home. We should be good enough to take the ball with a man five yards away and find another red. There seemed to be no belief in our ability to pass the ball, same at Pompey, same at many away grounds over the recent past.

 

That's very true, and also very unfortunate. We have lots of players who are comfortable on the ball, and yet any time we're under presure, we seem to lose faith in this.

[Guest RedIsMyColour]

We hoofed quite a lot at Sunderland too in the first half. It needs to be stamped out because its non productive.

[Coyler]

That's very true, and also very unfortunate. We have lots of players who are comfortable on the ball, and yet any time we're under presure, we seem to lose faith in this.

Chicken and the egg, last night, though: we lost faith in the players who are comfortable on the ball; those players looked anything but comfortable on the ball. I don't know if one caused the other or if, as I suspect, it was just a crap night and it all happened at once. Specifically Torres, Gerrard, and Mascherano, normally beasts of ball-retention. Some of the passing going astray in the middle was ridiculous.

[fred milne]

Carra and Reina need a little reminder of the benefits of building from the back me thinks

Agree with that.

 

With Carra, I wonder whether Henry robbing him to put us out of the FA Cup last year has made him more inclined to just clear his lines.

[honourablegeorge]

There seemed to be no belief in our ability to pass the ball, same at Pompey, same at many away grounds over the recent past.

 

 

Johnny Giles pointed out that it seems to be part of pur club's culture - if someone gave the ball away, there was nobody (and I'mm thinking of the captain here) giving them a roasting for doing it. That there's an acceptance amongst the squad that it's ok to give the ball away.

[fred milne]

Specifically Torres, Gerrard, and Mascherano, normally beasts of ball-retention.

That's never really been one of his strengths.

[Coyler]

Agree with that.

 

With Carra, I wonder whether Henry robbing him to put us out of the FA Cup last year has made him more inclined to just clear his lines.

Should he have needed any more convincing after Benfica at home 2005/2006 or Everton away last season?

[fred milne]

Should he have needed any more convincing after Benfica at home 2005/2006 or Everton away last season?

There's a time to clear your lines and a time to show composure. For a while now, the balance hasn't been quite right with Carra.

 

Its not that he's completely incapable of getting the ball down and playing, either.

Edited September 19, 2007 by fred milne

[Coyler]

That's never really been one of his strengths.

Retains the ball in that he keeps moves ticking over, though -- and at the very least, normally, propels the move away from the back four, which is a concern of our defence when they're looking for options to avoid hoofing, presumably.

[kop88]

Ive been thinking the same myself. Dont get me wrong, i love Carra and he would always be one of the first names on the team sheet for me, but he does tend to resort to either the long ball, or the sidewards ball at every opportunity. I think the two games weve had since the international break have lead to us going route 1 far too much. We need to cut this out and get back to knocking it about, a la Derby/Toulouse

Edited September 19, 2007 by kop88

[Coyler]

There's a time to clear your lines and a time to show composure. For a while now, the balance hasn't been right with Carra.

I agree with that and I'm terrified the undefinable quality that made him more than the sum of his footballing parts in recent seasons might be going/gone . Is it likely that Henry knocking us out of the FA Cup would have scarred him more than Benfica or Everton, though, is what I meant?

[fred milne]

Johnny Giles pointed out that it seems to be part of pur club's culture - if someone gave the ball away, there was nobody (and I'm thinking of the captain here) giving them a roasting for doing it. That there's an acceptance amongst the squad that it's ok to give the ball away.

Keane was good at that for Utd. Then again he was less careless with possession than Gerrard is.

Edited September 19, 2007 by fred milne