Vintage Valencia Today

[Leo No.8]

...I think with Mascherano coming in now, Rafa has the players to utilise his old 4-2-3-1 he employed so effectively at Valencia. It worked perfectly today, apart from a spell in the second half when we switched off they all fitted their roles beautifully and we were like a well oiled machine.

 

People are talking about a big money striker in the summer, but I think Crouch showed today he's ideal to be the one up front in that formation. We may instead see a couple of top class attacking midfield / forward type players coming in to provide greater quality in the three behind the front man than Gonzalez and Pennant, with those two being used more in squad roles as they continue their development.

 

It's the way Rafa wanted to play when he arrived, but I don't think he had the right players to do it. Perhaps for the rest of this and next season we may see it much more regularly. I think that may be how the Voronin signing fits in and the lad from Depor we're interested in.

 

It certainly worked perefectly today; we were solid at the back, looked dangerous every time we went forward and controlled the pace and tempo of the game which is an immensely difficult thing to do against Arsenal.

[Guest ziggystardust]

yawn

[wacko]

Spot on. We looked much more dangerous than we normally do with one up front. Usually, the midfielders don't get up in support fast enough, but we were great today with speedy wingers flying up there and great attacking work from the full-backs.

[Guest Jude]

I have said in the Man Of The Match thread that Rafa got his tactics spot on and the signing of Marcherano has now given him the opportunity to use his most favoured system more often now.

[Leo No.8]

yawn

 

Nice one for that

 

Here's a tip - don't f*cking read it if I'm boring you, you ignorant little turd. Feel free to enlighten us with your pearls of wisdom instead.

Edited March 31, 2007 by Leo No.8

[Whitey]

Comments from TV...

 

I thought today showed the time it can take things to settle down - I thought Aurelio was class, Arbeloa looks a great buy already, and thought Gonzalez looked the best I've seen him, and Pennant too. Always takes time for players to settle in, and I think we all forget that.

 

Tactics were spot on, however Arsenal were poor for long stretches today.....

[_00_deathscar]

I have said in the Man Of The Match thread that Rafa got his tactics spot on and the signing of Marcherano has now given him the opportunity to use his most favoured system more often now.

 

Baraja and Albelda = Alonso and Mascherano.

 

Vicente = Kewell...literally.

[KD07]

It was just brilliant, a day when the football we dished out on the park was just beautifully sublime and the best part of that was knowing that, we have the very manager who is capable of putting together an even better side for an even better footballing performance than that. I don't think we had ever looked capable of being so threatening and lethal given the 4-2-3-1 formation we had today but for the first time I can see how effective it can be with the right personnel in the right areas and all credit to the gaffer and the players for pulling it off.

 

I do think we need better players on the wings of course, but given the course of the season proper, quality up top is still pretty much in need. Crouch and Kuyt have the tools to be playing that frontman role but the thing to take note of today was our greater desire to surround him quickly with both fullbacks in attendance alongside the wingers. Having Mascherano breaking up the attacks and Xabi picking out the passes was another case in point for the positives, but it was the movement of the whole side that made it possible for us to stamp our dominance over one of the best passing sides in football today.

[Guest Anders Honoré]

I think the Valencia comparisons have expired by now. Our horrible away performances earlier in the season notwithstanding, we have consistently produced 'valencia' performances over the past two seasons, where 'the crushing machine' worked to a tee. We have a better side now than they did.

 

Baraja and Albelda = Alonso and Mascherano.

 

Vicente = Kewell...literally.

 

Baraja is much more similar to gerrard in style of play than xabi.

[Guz]

Dunno. Still think we'll play a traditional 442 with 2 wingers (1 being Gerrard) and two upfront most of next season. Key though is being flexible and being able to change things around tactically, like today, without much trouble.

 

We were pretty good today, not great, but took our chances and hassled Arsenal and made them look poor.

 

Funnily enough our best performance under Rafa (imo) came when we beat Arsenal 2-1 in his first season, the mellor wonder goal and all that. That day too we got good width from the full backs, had two solid midfielders in Xabi/Didi, Kewell/Pongolle playing wide and Gerrard just off the target man (Mellor)

[Earl Hafler]

Nice one for that

 

Here's a tip - don't f*cking read it if I'm boring you, you ignorant little turd. Feel free to enlighten us with your pearls of wisdom instead.

 

You tell 'em, Leo !!

 

Much of the difference today was from having someone like Gerrard playing through the middle with the ability to link with the wide players, and forward wide players - not Riise or Gerrard himself.

 

Personally, i think Kuyt's form has dipped since Gerrard was moved back onto the right and when Kuyt drops deep, he doesn't really have anyone getting past him into space. When one cross came in early in the first half, we had 4 or five players in an attacking line - sadly lacking in too many games recently.

[Foo]

I think the Valencia comparisons have expired by now. Our horrible away performances earlier in the season notwithstanding, we have consistently produced 'valencia' performances over the past two seasons, where 'the crushing machine' worked to a tee. We have a better side now than they did.

Baraja is much more similar to gerrard in style of play than xabi.

 

I most respectfully disagree. His Valencia side was really able to crush a side whereas this team is not, in my view, able to do the same consistently.

[Cunny]

when we win = valencia

when we lose = worst team ever

 

two different sides of the same knee jerk coin

[anfield11]

It was just brilliant, a day when the football we dished out on the park was just beautifully sublime and the best part of that was knowing that, we have the very manager who is capable of putting together an even better side for an even better footballing performance than that. I don't think we had ever looked capable of being so threatening and lethal given the 4-2-3-1 formation we had today but for the first time I can see how effective it can be with the right personnel in the right areas and all credit to the gaffer and the players for pulling it off.

 

I do think we need better players on the wings of course, but given the course of the season proper, quality up top is still pretty much in need. Crouch and Kuyt have the tools to be playing that frontman role but the thing to take note of today was our greater desire to surround him quickly with both fullbacks in attendance alongside the wingers. Having Mascherano breaking up the attacks and Xabi picking out the passes was another case in point for the positives, but it was the movement of the whole side that made it possible for us to stamp our dominance over one of the best passing sides in football today.

 

 

I think as Wacko [that just doesn't sound right] pointed out, both fullbacks offered a lot going forward too.

[anfield]

I think among other things we now know that it is not absolutely essential to play Sissoko. Great performance today and props to Crouch.

[JimmyF]

A fantastic taste of what maybe to come next season, 2 or 3 quality signings in the summer and maybe just maybe no. 19 will become a reality

Edited March 31, 2007 by JimmyF

[Guest Anders Honoré]

I most respectfully disagree. His Valencia side was really able to crush a side whereas this team is not, in my view, able to do the same consistently.

 

We have done it loads. Best example this season was tottenham. They couldn't live with us in the second half, much the same way we couldn't in the now legendary tie under Houllier. It's happened plenty of times. Valencia weren't playing like they did against us week in and week out. And we've performed similarly enough times for us to forget about that and look at how Liverpool plays rather than trying to emulate some mythical Valencia team you'd think was the best in the world because of a two-legged tie. We just knocked out the best attacking team in the world in the CL. We're f***ing ace on our day.

[Magic8Ball]

...I think with Mascherano coming in now, Rafa has the players to utilise his old 4-2-3-1 he employed so effectively at Valencia. It worked perfectly today, apart from a spell in the second half when we switched off they all fitted their roles beautifully and we were like a well oiled machine.

 

People are talking about a big money striker in the summer, but I think Crouch showed today he's ideal to be the one up front in that formation. We may instead see a couple of top class attacking midfield / forward type players coming in to provide greater quality in the three behind the front man than Gonzalez and Pennant, with those two being used more in squad roles as they continue their development.

 

It's the way Rafa wanted to play when he arrived, but I don't think he had the right players to do it. Perhaps for the rest of this and next season we may see it much more regularly. I think that may be how the Voronin signing fits in and the lad from Depor we're interested in.

 

It certainly worked perefectly today; we were solid at the back, looked dangerous every time we went forward and controlled the pace and tempo of the game which is an immensely difficult thing to do against Arsenal.

 

Or 433 which I've been saying is a variant of 4231 and both support our players better than 442

 

It was just brilliant, a day when the football we dished out on the park was just beautifully sublime and the best part of that was knowing that, we have the very manager who is capable of putting together an even better side for an even better footballing performance than that. I don't think we had ever looked capable of being so threatening and lethal given the 4-2-3-1 formation we had today but for the first time I can see how effective it can be with the right personnel in the right areas and all credit to the gaffer and the players for pulling it off.

 

I do think we need better players on the wings of course, but given the course of the season proper, quality up top is still pretty much in need. Crouch and Kuyt have the tools to be playing that frontman role but the thing to take note of today was our greater desire to surround him quickly with both fullbacks in attendance alongside the wingers. Having Mascherano breaking up the attacks and Xabi picking out the passes was another case in point for the positives, but it was the movement of the whole side that made it possible for us to stamp our dominance over one of the best passing sides in football today.

 

Absolutely right - we do need better wingers and more attacking full backs but we are now getting the personnel for 4231/433 which I think will be our preferred formation in the future

[Skillz]

well here comes Harry!b

[fred milne]

We have done it loads. Best example this season was tottenham. They couldn't live with us in the second half, much the same way we couldn't in the now legendary tie under Houllier. It's happened plenty of times. Valencia weren't playing like they did against us week in and week out. And we've performed similarly enough times for us to forget about that and look at how Liverpool plays rather than trying to emulate some mythical Valencia team you'd think was the best in the world because of a two-legged tie. We just knocked out the best attacking team in the world in the CL. We're f***ing ace on our day.

I think that's probably right.

[Romario]

A fantastic taste of what maybe to come next season, 2 or 3 quality signings in the summer and maybe just maybe no. 19 will become a reality

I don't agree to be honest. Liverpool turn up and put on a performance against another big side is hardly a shock is it. These are the kinds of performances that we all love but leave me feeling cheated that we have enough to do it over a season as we've often had yet the players pick their games. We as fans are left thinking that we are perhaps 2 or 3 players away season after season when really it's a case of motivation. This is the bit I find hard to take to be honest.

 

Todays game doesn't really mean very much. It's 3rd v 4th, 4th v 3rd. Same difference. The main difference was Arsenals players have zero to play for and their heads were already on holiday while our players are playing for starting places in the CL.

[spencer]

Todays game doesn't really mean very much. It's 3rd v 4th, 4th v 3rd. Same difference. The main difference was Arsenals players have zero to play for and their heads were already on holiday while our players are playing for starting places in the CL.

 

If Arsenal's players think 3rd/4th is guaranteed, they could be in for a big shock.

[David Hodgson]

when we win = valencia

when we lose = worst team ever

 

two different sides of the same knee jerk coin

 

 

Agreed. Apart from in small sublime patches, we were pretty darned ordinary yesterday. I put much of that down to perhaps scoring too early (in that Arsenal were galvanised) and having other prioirities (hence Gerrard coming off after 55mins), but nevertheless it was a great result but far from a great performance.

 

Having said that, the tactical comparison to Valencia is relevant.

[Smith]

when we win = valencia

when we lose = worst team ever

 

two different sides of the same knee jerk coin

 

Well, generally speaking perhaps.

 

However, kind of unfair to the originator of this thread, who imo isn't prone to kneejerking.

[mercury]

Agreed. Apart from in small sublime patches, we were pretty darned ordinary yesterday. I put much of that down to perhaps scoring too early (in that Arsenal were galvanised) and having other prioirities (hence Gerrard coming off after 55mins), but nevertheless it was a great result but far from a great performance.

 

Having said that, the tactical comparison to Valencia is relevant.

 

do think we played well. they never threatened much even when they had that spell of possession while we looked dangerous everytime we attack.