We're still too f***ing nice

[Knox_Harrington]

Agger booked. Why? Because they got at the ref. They influenced him all game and we didn't have anybody in the middle of the pitch doing likewise. Frankly it needs sorting. Why does Carra have to run fifty yards to tell the referee the backpass freekick is in the wrong place? Are Gerrard and Alonso f***ing mute? When we play Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal they don't give the referee a second and they hunt players and refs in packs. Barca likewise tonight. We need to match them because 1% in these things makes all the difference. It infuriates me. That referee was weak tonight and we should be exploiting weak officiating. It could easily have hurt us.

[Romario]

I agree. They really pissed me off tonite. Every fecking time. Agger and Sissoko's bookings were gash.

[Barnesy_10]

Agger booked. Why? Because they got at the ref. They influenced him all game and we didn't have anybody in the middle of the pitch doing likewise. Frankly it needs sorting. Why does Carra have to run fifty yards to tell the referee the backpass freekick is in the wrong place? Are Gerrard and Alonso f***ing mute? When we play Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal they don't give the referee a second and they hunt players and refs in packs. Barca likewise tonight. We need to match them because 1% in these things makes all the difference. It infuriates me. That referee was weak tonight and we should be exploiting weak officiating. It could easily have hurt us.

agred 011%$

[fyds]

He may have been 'weak' but I'm sure we were not writing his cheque.

 

I'd prefer it if we did what we do - talk to the ref, but don't harangue him - especially when he's happy to hand out the yellows away from home. There are some aspects I don't want to see us mirror the Chavs and Mancs in.

[Knox_Harrington]

I agree. They really pissed me off tonite. Every fecking time. Agger and Sissoko's bookings were gash.

Every time Sissoko fouled second half they went to the referee.

 

I'm not pissed off with Barca. Once the ref books Agger I don't blame them one bit. I'm pissed off with the ref and with us.

[fyds]

You're pissed off with Agger because he got booked unfairly?

[Guest Scot]

You're pissed off with Agger because he got booked unfairly?

 

No, obviously not. P*ssed off that the ref being intimidated LED to Agger being booked unfairly.

[Knox_Harrington]

He may have been 'weak' but I'm sure we were not writing his cheque.

 

I'd prefer it if we did what we do - talk to the ref, but don't harangue him - especially when he's happy to hand out the yellows away from home. There are some aspects I don't want to see us mirror the Chavs and Mancs in.

We hardly even talk to the ref. Barca never haranged him. They just spoke to him incessantly.

 

No, obviously not. P*ssed off that the ref being intimidated LED to Agger being booked unfairly.

Yes. And made Barca's mind up that they weren't going to give the referee a minute because, look, it gets results.

 

We should be at the very least contesting these things. When they surround the referee one of ours should be in there too. It's lily-livered and if we progress we could live to regret a couple of those decisions tonight.

[hagi_complex]

The ref was consistent in his terrible decisions.

[fyds]

We hardly even talk to the ref. Barca never haranged him. They just spoke to him incessantly.

Most of them, yes - Puyol and Toothy deffo kept tyelling in his face - not Roy Keane style, but nonetheless - Puyol was still going at all three onfield officials at the final whistle. On our side, Carra ket up the gob, as did Bellamy, Kuyt and to a lesser degree, Gerrard.

 

In the end, once he's given a decision he's not going to change his mind anyway and incessant gob will just piss a ref off - especially in Europe.

 

Anyway, whatever - we won

[Guest Scot]

 

In the end, once he's given a decision he's not going to change his mind anyway and incessant gob will just piss a ref off - especially in Europe.

 

 

It's not about changing THAT decision, it's about changing the next one

[Romario]

It's something that I never understand. Every gash team I've ever played with moans and argues with the ref and he balances out calls by the moaning. Not saying it's as easy with proper refs but we don't call jack s***. Tonite Barca had the rub of the green all night and there was a few times where we pulled out of tackling Messi just because he'd have gone down and they would have got a free on the 25 yard line(ish)

 

It's weird. I'm not saying managers teach or tell players to do it but it's really natural to argue and call everything in a game where you push the limits of the rules all the time yet we done call it ever.

 

Barca would end up in the relegation zone if the spent a year on our league goin down like lady boys every time it's a shoulder barge. Jesus it was annoying.

 

And Ronaldinho holding his ankle early on when ot was clear no one touched him yet won a free due to his name. I thought it wasn't our night then.

 

Fair play to the lads for turning it around I thought after that.

[Knox_Harrington]

Most of them, yes - Puyol and Toothy deffo kept tyelling in his face - not Roy Keane style, but nonetheless - Puyol was still going at all three onfield officials at the final whistle. On our side, Carra ket up the gob, as did Bellamy, Kuyt and to a lesser degree, Gerrard.

 

In the end, once he's given a decision he's not going to change his mind anyway and incessant gob will just piss a ref off - especially in Europe.

He wasn't going to book Agger. He did. He changed his mind. I didn't see a single sign of that getting pissed off thing with Puyol. Didn't see much of Bellamy or Kuyt or any of Gerrard.

 

We can act all Corinthian about this but it costs us. All the time. Agger should definitely have escaped a caution tonight and Momo should have. If we progress, still a big if, both players, crucial to us, could be in danger of getting suspended.

[fyds]

No, obviously not. P*ssed off that the ref being intimidated LED to Agger being booked unfairly.

I think that ref was always going to book our players first - if we gobbed off it just would have been sooner. he was weak and a 'homer' this happens in Europe sometimes - even nin the prem...why make it easier for them by giving them an excuse?

 

Momo got booked, seemingly for small frequesnt offences - imagine in that place if after each one he took the Puyol approach...he'd have been off before we got no.2. I'd argue that Barca's chat and moaning may have got them undeserved free-kicks but also distracted from their focus - we didn't do it anything like as much and kept our minds on the job.

[Knox_Harrington]

It's not about changing THAT decision, it's about changing the next one

And that as well.

 

I think that ref was always going to book our players first - if we gobbed off it just would have been sooner. he was weak and a 'homer' this happens in Europe sometimes - even nin the prem...why make it easier for them by giving them an excuse?

 

Momo got booked, seemingly for small frequesnt offences - imagine in that place if after each one he took the Puyol approach...he'd have been off before we got no.2. I'd argue that Barca's chat and moaning may have got them undeserved free-kicks but also distracted from their focus - we didn't do it anything like as much and kept our minds on the job.

Disagree with all that, almost every word, apart from the possibility we're discouraged to get involved in order to keep full focus especially when it is an intensely tactical game. That could be accurate. If so we need to find a way around it because it is hurting us.

[fyds]

He wasn't going to book Agger. He did. He changed his mind. I didn't see a single sign of that getting pissed off thing with Puyol. Didn't see much of Bellamy or Kuyt or any of Gerrard.

 

We can act all Corinthian about this but it costs us. All the time. Agger should definitely have escaped a caution tonight and Momo should have. If we progress, still a big if, both players, crucial to us, could be in danger of getting suspended.

It's not acting Corinthian mate - it's plain common sense when you're playing away in Europe and the referee shows a preference for the home side - you can 'face him up', give him an excuse and end up with six bookings and a red card (the crowd won't be against him, will they?) or you can stick to what you're good at, don't get distracted pick up less bookings and win. Under rafa in Europe we've been very good at that.

[hagi_complex]

The ref wasn't a homer, he was just incompetent.

[fyds]

And that as well.

Disagree with all that, almost every word, apart from the possibility we're discouraged to get involved in order to keep full focus especially when it is an intensely tactical game. That could be accurate. If so we need to find a way around it because it is hurting us.

yes, but we won, they lost - how is it hurting us ? With better finishing it could have been 1-4.

 

The ref wasn't a homer, he was just incompetent.

Fine line - the one can create the impression of the other.

[Knox_Harrington]

It's not acting Corinthian mate - it's plain common sense when you're playing away in Europe and the referee shows a preference for the home side - you can 'face him up', give him an excuse and end up with six bookings and a red card (the crowd won't be against him, will they?) or you can stick to what you're good at, don't get distracted pick up less bookings and win. Under rafa in Europe we've been very good at that.

Prior to them getting in his face over Agger we have no idea which side he's going to favour. None whatsoever. It isn't just tonight in any case. We don't do it at home, domestically or in Europe, we don't do it away domestically or in Europe. And it hurts us, could have done so tonight, could do so in future off the back of tonight, has done in other games. It doesn't take much but we have no one speaking to the referee continually except Carragher.

 

yes, but we won, they lost - how is it hurting us ? With better finishing it could have been 1-4.

We get through and Agger and Sissoko are easily at the whim of a Gudjohnson.

[fyds]

Prior to them getting in his face over Agger we have no idea which side he's going to favour. None whatsoever. It isn't just tonight in any case. We don't do it at home, domestically or in Europe, we don't do it away domestically or in Europe. And it hurts us, could have done so tonight, could do so in future off the back of tonight, has done in other games. It doesn't take much but we have no one speaking to the referee continually except Carragher.

We get through and Agger and Sissoko are easily at the whim of a Gudjohnson.

I do take your point, genuinely - I'm just not sure in the end to go down that line isn't counterproductive. Re this particular ref though, at the Nou Camp, unless it was a major ref we all know and have at least a scintilla of respect for, I'd have gone into that game expecting more to go Barca's way than ours just by the nature of such things. In saying that, their crowd was crap.

Edited February 22, 2007 by fyds

[Knox_Harrington]

I do take your point, genuinely - I'm just not sure in the end to go down that line isn't counterproductive. Re this particular ref though, at the Nou Camp, unless it was a major ref we all know and have at least ascintilla of respect for, I'd have gon einto that game expecting more to go barca's way than ours just by the nature iof such things. In saying that, their crowd was crap.

And I take yours about it can be counter-productive but every time? I'm not asking for Roy Keane shenangians here. What I'm saying is that the indirect freekick should have been taken from where the foul occurred. Alonso and Gerrard didn't seem interested in arguing this point and were happy to roll over. Meanwhile the Barca players disagree with the decision, but crucially get it shifted two yards to the left and about five back. Makes it harder. Only Carragher, from centre half, points this out. This isn't a one-off occurance. It happens to us too often in big games that we lose the battle for the referee.

 

Another example. Alonso booked for his "dive" against Arsenal. Bulls*** decision. Alonso moans but no one else approaches the referee. We had another couple of decent shouts for a pen in that game. Nothing. Not an inch. We get in his face in the first place, maybe we drop another yellow, maybe but I'm sceptical, but the crowd gets right on his back and he begins to doubt himself. Frankly, if I was Bennett in that game, from the reaction of Alonso's teammates I'd have assumed I was 100% correct, and he was anything but.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Knox_Harrington

[Maldini]

If they're doing it and getting away with it then we have to do it too.

[Nebraska Red]

I do take your point, genuinely - I'm just not sure in the end to go down that line isn't counterproductive. Re this particular ref though, at the Nou Camp, unless it was a major ref we all know and have at least a scintilla of respect for, I'd have gone into that game expecting more to go Barca's way than ours just by the nature of such things. In saying that, their crowd was crap.

 

I watch most of Barcelona's games and their crowd is usually terrible until they have a 2 goal lead and then they start singing.

 

We handled the ref just right, no back chatting, no stupid dissent and we got away with ONLY 4 yellows.

 

The decision for the indirect free kick stunned me as you rarely see that given for a pass from so far upfield. What annoyed me was that he gave us the ball from where Valdes ended up, not where he actually picked up the ball.

 

Also, after watching some of Momo's crunching tackles, i don't think Barca will think we are nice.

Edited February 22, 2007 by nebraska red

[Bailo]

I agree with both Knox and fyds - we don't get in the face of refs enough and Gerrard/Alonso aren't vocal enough, the passback tonight, Alonso's sending off against Arsenal case in point. BUT I think last night arguing with the ref would have been very counter-productive. I can think of two people arguing with him, Carra and Bellamy and Bellamy got booked for it. Why give a home-side favouring ref excuse to book more for dissent?

 

I've no doubt that Momo got booked for raising his arms to Puyol (I think it was him) rather than for fouls, so anytime that ref decides he's been persistently fouling he's off. Even more likely if Momo starts chatting back to him.

[DanielS]

Did anyone watch the Lyon game and Mike Riley's record breaking card spree? Would be interesting to see how the players were with him...