How much are we missing Paco Herrera ?

[Falconhoof]

I can't put my finger on whats going wrong this season. We shouldn't be struggling so much.

Could it be that Paco was such an important cog in the machine that Rafa is unable to manage as well without him ?

 

It can't be that we've had bad luck, a tough run of games or are tired from international fixtures...even allowing for all that we should be 4-7 points better off which would give the players a bit more optimism going into games.

[Guest Kev]

Spoke to Wayne about this before and posted it in another thread.

 

It's a strong possibility, everyone thought Shankley was the one, but Paisley took us even further. Houllier lost the other fella (name escapes me) and we struggles, and Man Utd went crap when that fella went to Madrid.

[fred milne]

We did no better in these kind of games when Herrera was about.

 

Houllier lost the other fella (name escapes me) and we struggles.

IIRC Bergues left in the summer of 2001 - i.e. before we went on to have our best season in the league under GH.

[Guest Jack Bauer]

Herrera didn't exactly turn the games like that, I'm not sure that's true at all. Just clutching for straws me thinks.

[Gunga Din]

Spoke to Wayne about this before and posted it in another thread.

 

It's a strong possibility, everyone thought Shankley was the one, but Paisley took us even further. Houllier lost the other fella (name escapes me) and we struggles, and Man Utd went crap when that fella went to Madrid.

 

 

that would be Shankly

Edited October 22, 2006 by big wayne

[Guest Kev]

thay would be Shankly

 

No it's That not Thay would be Shankly

[Gunga Din]

No it's That not Thay would be Shankly

 

[Dule]

I was about to start a thread about this topic on Friday, so down though i dont think i will expand on anything though.

[Earl Hafler]

We did no better in these kind of games when Herrera was about.

IIRC Bergues left in the summer of 2001 - i.e. before we went on to have our best season in the league under GH.

 

And just after our most successful season under GH.

[fred milne]

And just after our most successful season under GH.

That's open to debate.

[Kahnee]

That's open to debate.

 

You think finishing 2nd was a bigger success than winning five trophies?

[fred milne]

You think finishing 2nd was a bigger success than winning five trophies?

If we are counting all five trophies then two of the them were in 2001-2 season but I take your point.

 

Let's say I think we were a better side in the season after Bergues left, which was evidenced by our points tally and league placing.

[Huyton_Red]

We struggled at the start of last season as well, when Paco Herrera was there.

[Earl Hafler]

If we are counting all five trophies then two of the them were in 2001-2 season but I take your point.

 

Let's say I think we were a better side in the season after Bergues left, which was evidenced by our points tally and league placing.

 

But you could also say we won more points and gained a higher league position because we weren't winning a treble.

 

However, i agree that in the 2001 / 02 season we played our best football under GH. Some of the stuff we played in the spring was excellent.

[Guest Scot]

You think finishing 2nd was a bigger success than winning five trophies?

 

I do personally, yeah.

[Earl Hafler]

Then you should put the bottle of poteen down and get some sleep.

[Guest Scot]

Then you should put the bottle of poteen down and get some sleep.

 

In the sense that I think it's harder to finish 2nd than to win knockout trophies. It requires a far greater level of consistency and, for me, league play is the only good indicator of a team's progress.

[Spike]

I think Paco going has had a massive impact. He did much more than run the ressies - I posted about this after the derby defeat.

 

I also think that there are several other factors all of which have been touched upon previously:

 

1) the number of international breaks. Not just the world cup hangover but our preparations have been disrupted by the lads returning late and we have already had two fecking international breaks. As I have said elsewhere on here before - I hate the thought of someone else getting their tactical hands on our lads. In fact you could even go so far as to say that with the players away for so long in the summer that the tactical dexterity which Rafa strives for, where we have more than two gameplans, may have been coached out of them a tad. Think muscle memory but with tactics and you'll see where I'm getting at.

 

2) As others have mentioned. We should have played last season's players to start off with this year but injuries, and the WC / fitness levels may have curtailed this. Still, it's only something we can say with hindsight but next season, without a world cup or owt, I'd like our new signings to be eased in and the new lads given the time to learn. Also let them know that to improve on last years results they have to bring something new to the team and compete against the players that also play in their position.

 

Actually, I'd have rather have played some of our ressies in place of the new lads at times - just the odd one or two. What's to say they couldn't have fitted in like Warnock has?

 

3) f***ing early kick offs and our toughest aways in the first 9 games. If you take the Bolton, Mancs, Chelsea and the Blueshyte results and intersperse them every 5 games or so over the rest of the season rather than the 4/9 that we've played you wouldn't be too surprised and perhaps would say 'ok that's the bad ones over with'.

 

The next two home league matches are the litmus test - up against a resurgent Villa and a team that we we should beat easily on paper in Reading.

[Bootle Buck]

Personally I would love to see Sammy Lee back in the fold. His passion and love for the club would help get these players motivated. He's done well at Bolton and is very well respected in the game. I think it would be nice for Rafa to have an ex-player on his coaching staff. I would think he would bring more to the table than Alex Young.

Edited October 24, 2006 by Bootle Buck

[gkmacca]

Alex Miller???

[The Hitman]

It's completely absurd that any of us could say that one coach "brings more to the table" than another.

What the f*** do we know? About what goes on in training,or what methods are the most effective?

Where are our FA Coaching Badges?

Honestly.

[Spike]

Mine's at home. Dunno about yours

[The Hitman]

I don't need one.

I'm Gareth Southgate.