Hyypia as the 'playmaker'

[Huyton_Red]

For the last four or five years, every time we have a bad game one thing stands out for me

 

For large parts of these games we have sami hyppia trying to be liverpools playmaker, popping long/short passes all over the place nearly all game most of them not finding a Liverpool player.

 

Hyypias distribution, is for the most part dreadfull, yes now and again he pops up with a great ball but its definatelt a case of 'if at first you dont suceed, try, try again'

 

It was the same under the last manager, when we played badly, I always came away from the game moaning about how many times hyypia wasted posession. Sheff Utd away he did it, also times on Saturday he was doing it as well, when kuty came on the poor lad had to run round like a headless chicken trying to beat yard dog centre backs to hyppias hoofs

 

Alonso, needs to drop and start taking the ball of hyppia, we look f'ckin dreadfull as a team when we allow hyppia to start whacking balls all over the place from the back.

 

Carragher never does it so why the f'ck does hyppia, I am starting to think it is only me who can see it such has been the length of time he has been allowed to do this. We look a much better team when we pass through midfield, why the hell are we allowing hyppia to dictate our passing when ten yards in front of him we have one of the best passers in Europe in Alonso

 

Been going on for years this and its starting to get on my nerves, has anyone else noticed this? Nearlyall the bad performances over the last five years have involved hyppia whacking the ball all over the place and the team looking disjointed and awfkward as a result

 

Fine the f'cker if he doesnt give it simple

[Elisha_Scott]

 

Carragher never does it so why the f'ck does hyppia, I am starting to think it is only me who can see it such has been the length of time he has been allowed to do this.

 

 

 

Carra does though, he plays loads of horrible floated balls in to nowhere, its one of his main weaknesses

[Huyton_Red]

Fair enough, suppose he does

 

But do you know what I mean, every time we play badly you seem to walk away thinking about how many times the centre backs hoof the ball and give it away

 

Not just under rafa either, same thing under houllier.

 

Agger for Hyypia for me more and more this season for all kinds of reasons, not all the time, obviously sami is a great defender with tons of experience but I would like to see agger and carragher given a run

[Stevie H]

there's a common theme, and it's when teams swamp the midfield against us and don't allow xabi time on the ball. they don't mind sami and carra having time on the ball, it suits them.

[Elisha_Scott]

Fair enough, suppose he does

 

But do you know what I mean, every time we play badly you seem to walk away thinking about how many times the centre backs hoof the ball and give it away

 

Not just under rafa either, same thing under houllier.

 

Agger for Hyypia for me more and more this season for all kinds of reasons, not all the time, obviously sami is a great defender with tons of experience but I would like to see agger and carragher given a run

 

I do agree with you, yes. Just pointing out that its not just Hyypia, Carra has weaknesses too. One thing about Hyypia is, he should quit international football, its doing him no good whatsoever. He cant get away with it anymore.

[sean]

Think it's time to get Gerrard back in the middle and dropping Momo or Xabi, on recent form it's got to be the latter. No point in buying all this pace and not using any of it. Pennant and Gonzales would have at least given them something to defend, they'd have dropped 20 yards toward their own goal. They went as high as they liked as Crouch and Fowler were never going to run in behind them. We played our football in front of their defensive unit.

[Chief Robert]

Agger for Hyypia for me more and more this season for all kinds of reasons, not all the time, obviously sami is a great defender with tons of experience but I would like to see agger and carragher given a run

Have to agree with that. I think Agger can feel hard done that he didn't get a longer run in the team. I don't think Carra was 100% match fit last weekend and Rafa gambled that it being a Derby would bring out the best in JC. Didn't work out, and both Sami and JC looked off the pace...

[hagi_complex]

The hoof out of defence (and it's not just Sami that does it) is the single most frustrating thing about our style of play at the moment.

 

There's a time and a place for a long ball forward, but we do it too much. There's just no need for it when you consider the quality of our midfielders.

[Walrus]

One thing about Hyypia is, he should quit international football, its doing him no good whatsoever. He cant get away with it anymore.

He bloody well shouldn't. Not now, when we're finally going somewhere in the qualifying

[Clay Davis]

i made this point a while a go - our defenders distribution of the ball is below par. it was rubbished.

[Guz]

I've also noticed that when we play against a fast tricky striker Sami is the one who always marks him and therefore looks like a c***. Carra seems to have the easier role of the too and therefore gets less stick when we lose.

 

Or these strikers always try and 'target' the slower of the two defenders. Except Henry of course.

 

It's not just sami. Carra, Riise and Finnan are all very prone to long balls, distrubution at times can be very poor. When things arent going our way (february ish last year when momo was out and we lost a few games) we hoof the ball too much. It's the weakest part of our game under Rafa I think and our next natural progression as a team.

[fred milne]

Fine the f'cker if he doesnt give it simple

In fairness to Sami, sometimes when he is in possession there aren't too many midfielders showing for the ball or they are being closely marked.

[RedBilledChough]

In fairness to Sami, sometimes when he is in possession there aren't too many midfielders showing for the ball or they are being closely marked.

 

True. Sami (and Carra) hoofing the ball out of defence is often a symptom of our playing badly, not a cause.

[Ian Mc]

Rafa ballsed up by playing Carra instead of Agger. I thought it was really unfair the way he was left out after how he has performed in the 2 previous league matches. And when Carra is fully fit Sami should be on the bench from now on, Let's face it he's on the decline. He's been a fantastic servant for Liverpool and one of our greatest buys i reckon. But whenever we come up against a pacy striker with him in the team we will be liable to concede. Especially as our formation and system is more attacking minded without the protection of Hamann or Gerrard (central).

[Wilbur]

True. Sami (and Carra) hoofing the ball out of defence is often a symptom of our playing badly, not a cause.

 

I agree. Speaking as a central defender, when the match is going your way, it is relatively easy to hand off the ball to the nearest midfielder and let them go to work, since it has been successful so far. The emotional cost is low.

 

When things are not going well, you want to change the game, so you press to hard and try to win the game yourself with that great long, floated pass behind the defenders. Now of course, you also hope that the opposition does this in return, since you can head those useless balls out all day long, but you always think emotionally when you are down that YOUR long ball will be different, better, a game winner. The emotional cost of the short pass to the ineffectual midfielder five yards away goes way up when you are down.

 

Happens all the time, no matter what you do to try and discipline yourself not to.

[Bootle Buck]

Rafa ballsed up by playing Carra instead of Agger. I thought it was really unfair the way he was left out after how he has performed in the 2 previous league matches. And when Carra is fully fit Sami should be on the bench from now on, Let's face it he's on the decline. He's been a fantastic servant for Liverpool and one of our greatest buys i reckon. But whenever we come up against a pacy striker with him in the team we will be liable to concede. Especially as our formation and system is more attacking minded without the protection of Hamann or Gerrard (central).

 

Everton were always going to play with Johnson alone up front. I'm not sure why Rafa chose Sami and Carra against a pacy forward up front.

[fred milne]

Everton were always going to play with Johnson alone up front. I'm not sure why Rafa chose Sami and Carra against a pacy forward up front.

Because they have dealt with pacy forwards perfectly well before?

[Ian Garro]

Because they have dealt with pacy forwards perfectly well before?

Agreed Fred, but Sami seems to be slowing down by the game. That, a not fully fit Carra alongside him, and a genuinely pacey, on form striker in Andy Johnson against him, made it a bad choice imho.

 

I'd put Agger in for now, see how he does. I dont think Sami should be an automatic choice anymore, not just on the game at the weekend. He may come back now and have his best season for us - but he shouldnt be above criticism - or being dropped (not aimed at you Fred btw).

[Walrus]

Where's Spanish Fan?

[Earl Hafler]

there's a common theme, and it's when teams swamp the midfield against us and don't allow xabi time on the ball. they don't mind sami and carra having time on the ball, it suits them.

 

And on Saturday the back four couldn't pop it around and be patient because Johnson was running everything down.

 

Knowing how they'd come at us, i'm surprised we played with that sort of 4-4-2 and Garcia out on the left which doesn't seem to suit him or us. Maybe Gerrard should have been pulled into the centre sooner instead of switching wings and being on the periphery.

 

We could analyse this game for weeks, what with the shocking ref and his assistants, the poor form of key players, the early kick off / internationals and Everton being on a high after Spurs etc etc etc

 

We have a squad capable of winning the title and we'll improve.

Edited September 11, 2006 by Big Stuff

[RedBilledChough]

Where's Spanish Fan?

He's watching videos of Spanish 4th Division games and marvelling at the pinpoint passing skills of journeyman defenders.

[Guest Johnie82]

 

I also reckon Sami's headed distribution is about as bad as it gets. If there's three red shirts and one opposition shirt within his heading range then you can put your money on where the ball will end up from Sami's headed clearance.

 

Exactly!That was pretty obvious especially in the last match.The most worrying part though is that he's like 3 seconds slower than he used to be the previous years(Sheffield Utd game anyone?).We all know that all of those years what balanced his lack of pace was his excellent positioning and that he could 'read' the game.Now he seems to have lost them a bit too and not to mention that if he doesn't position himself right or if he doesn't tackle his opponent in time,forget it.There is no way to catch anyone.Maybe Agger should get an extended run in the first team if you take into consideration the latter's form and Hyypia's one.

[Dominus Maximus]

I might be biased But Agger is great at bringing the forward. Whilst giving him the ball to build up, it also free's Alonso, which gives us more balance in playing the 442, in contrast to a 451, in where Alonso has to protect Hyppia...

[Elisha_Scott]

I might be biased But Agger is great at bringing the forward. Whilst giving him the ball to build up, it also free's Alonso, which gives us more balance in playing the 442, in contrast to a 451, in where Alonso has to protect Hyppia...

 

Biased or not, you are right. Agger is our best ball playing centre half and I really hope he starts getting games.

[fred milne]

He may come back now and have his best season for us - but he shouldnt be above criticism - or being dropped (not aimed at you Fred btw).

I don't disagree with that, although clearly it should apply to Carra too.