Steve Heighway

[Guest Les Howard]

To be honest - I thought he was gonna be 'culled' when Rafa took over. It's no coincidence that we've had to go out and buy young talent like Anderson, Roque, Antwi, Hobbs and the likes - because frankly we didn't have much else coming through from the Academy.

 

Obviously - we won the Youth Cup last season which was great - but a big part of the team were the players mentioned above who were brought in by Rafa.

 

Now Steve Heighway may be doing a sterling job - I don't know - I'm sort of looking from a distance and don't pretend to be clued up on the youth set up; but maybe somebody out there is. So in your opinion - what kind of job is he doing because as I said - I expected Rafa to bring his own man into the academy at the expense of Heighway.

 

Just interested like.

[Benitez]

Rafa hasn't got any say in the Academy.

 

So if he wanted rid of Heighway, he can't do a thing about him.

[Bootle Buck]

I still don't understand the money being spent on Academies when teams just go out and buy 2/3 players for each position. Especially when they have kids as young as 10/11. It would take several gems to come through to pay for itself.

[Guest Anders Honoré]

the club isn't really run to the extent that the manager controls all footballing matters. He is in charge of the first team and accompanying reserves. I don't think he has any say whatsoever with the rest.

[Guest Les Howard]

So who bought the players I mentioned above? Surely it was Rafa.

 

I'm surprised to hear Rafa has nothing to do with the academy. Really surprised.

[eth]

So who bought the players I mentioned above? Surely it was Rafa.

 

I'm surprised to hear Rafa has nothing to do with the academy. Really surprised.

The players such as Roque, Antwi, Hobbs, Anderson etc who were bought in have never been at the academy, they went straight into the reserve squad. The youth cup was a collaboration between those young enough to play from the reserves and the academy players.

[Guest Les Howard]

The players such as Roque, Antwi, Hobbs, Anderson etc who were bought in have never been at the academy, they went straight into the reserve squad. The youth cup was a collaboration between those young enough to play from the reserves and the academy players.

 

Oh right - cheers for that Eth.

Howard_lfc.

 

The question still remains though - what kind of a job is Heighway doing? Anybody?

[Nerik]

Erm he runs the academy doesn't he?

[mally]

i wonder if he's ever said "it's my way or the highway"?

[Guest AdamS]

Last year was the first year which saw players go through the entire academy. By that I mean they have been brought in early and benefitted from several years at the academy, not just the last few.

 

Of the team that won the youth cup last season only Hobbs, Godwin, Anderson and Roque (often on the bench) were bought in by Rafa. I don't think we would have won it without those lads, but it's still only 3/4 players out of the entire squad.

 

I don't know enough about the politics to know how things are behind closed doors or how much value Heighway is adding but it's only really fair to judge him on performances of lads from last season onward, on most importantly how many progress to the first team squad.

[Guest Les Howard]

try starting an interesting one

 

Ah - a shaft of wit from Kvarme.

[Spike]

better than the usual waft of s*** from when he posts

[beejay]

This thread should be merged with the one about the 5 graduates to melwood. Hammill & Peltier have also been promoted to Melwood and the new U-17s in the Academy are very highly rated.

[Maldini]

Hammill has been there since about Christmas and Peltier's been there since last summer, if not before.

 

Where'd you hear that about the u17s?

[Guest Les Howard]

the academy is not just about first team players at liverpool. Its about giving local lads the chance to pursue a career in football or the sports arena.

 

I disagree. THe hole point in spending £14m on the academy was to produce players for the future, not just to give the local lads an opportunity as you suggest.

[cymrococh]

Hammill has been there since about Christmas and Peltier's been there since last summer, if not before.

 

Where'd you hear that about the u17s?

The u17s this year are probably the lads I was told about a couple of years ago by one of the academy coaches, they were u15s at the time. This fella reckoned there were 4 or 5 that had a chance of making it to the first team.

[jimmylibel]

Last year was the first year which saw players go through the entire academy. By that I mean they have been brought in early and benefitted from several years at the academy, not just the last few.

 

Of the team that won the youth cup last season only Hobbs, Godwin, Anderson and Roque (often on the bench) were bought in by Rafa. I don't think we would have won it without those lads, but it's still only 3/4 players out of the entire squad.

 

I don't know enough about the politics to know how things are behind closed doors or how much value Heighway is adding but it's only really fair to judge him on performances of lads from last season onward, on most importantly how many progress to the first team squad.

 

See this is the line that has been spun by Heighway - judge me on the current crop (which has been described as the 'golden generation' or something to that effect) as they are the first group to come all the way through the academy set up. But why should that be a good enough reason?

 

Are we suggesting that it was just a waste of time/ money training all those players who passed through the ranks without having the 'full Academy experience'? How is it that other clubs who set up their academies at the same time/ after we did, have been producing higher quality youngsters than we have on a more regular basis?

 

Those players prior to this year who may have only spent half their LFC careers (or more) in the Academy were still under Heighway's guidance before the Academy was up and running, so how is it acceptable that he should "only be judged on those players that have gone all the way through the Academy"? Not like he was only appointed at the time that the Academy was set up.

[Alonso]

The u17s this year are probably the lads I was told about a couple of years ago by one of the academy coaches, they were u15s at the time. This fella reckoned there were 4 or 5 that had a chance of making it to the first team.

Any idea on the names of the 4 or 5?

[zimmie4444]

I think we should be more realistic in what we expect from academies. You have to compare what our our academy has done in recent times (say 5 years or so) to what the academies of Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, and a couple of other big clubs too (lets say Newcastle and Spurs), have done. Which youngsters have made the grade in the first teams at those clubs? I can really only think of Darren Fletcher, and Steven Taylor as a genuine academy products to be making the grade at those clubs, so it's perhaps a problem that there is a widespread lack of talent in this country at the moment, maybe it's a generational thing, or it could just be a cyclical thing and it will get better in a few years, but I don't see the talent coming through at any clubs, not just Liverpool, like it did a decade or so ago, when you had the likes of Fowler, Carragher, Gerrard and Owen all coming through here, and the Nevilles, Scholes, Butt and Beckham at the Mancs.

[Maldini]

Fletcher signed for United at 16 so he's not really product of their academy either

[zimmie4444]

Fletcher signed for United at 16 so he's not really product of their academy either

 

And United have always made a habit of cherry-picking 15/16yo from other clubs. Most of the 'Fergie fledgings' were poached from elsewhere

[jimmylibel]

I think we should be more realistic in what we expect from academies. You have to compare what our our academy has done in recent times (say 5 years or so) to what the academies of Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, and a couple of other big clubs too (lets say Newcastle and Spurs), have done. Which youngsters have made the grade in the first teams at those clubs? I can really only think of Darren Fletcher, and Steven Taylor as a genuine academy products to be making the grade at those clubs, so it's perhaps a problem that there is a widespread lack of talent in this country at the moment, maybe it's a generational thing, or it could just be a cyclical thing and it will get better in a few years, but I don't see the talent coming through at any clubs, not just Liverpool, like it did a decade or so ago, when you had the likes of Fowler, Carragher, Gerrard and Owen all coming through here, and the Nevilles, Scholes, Butt and Beckham at the Mancs.

 

Think there's more players out there than that. I don't expect the academies to produce 1st team regulars for the big clubs every season but there should surely be at least one player good enough for a squad role? To put that in perspective we've only managed to produce Warnock, Mellor and arguable Potter since Gerrard broke through.

[Maldini]

Yeah, I think the way the academy system is now set up it's the only way the big clubs can be sure of getting the best young players. We only copped onto this in the last year or so.

[zimmie4444]

I think maybe, there is more talent around than this, and it's clear there is a failure somewhere, but I think it's a failure of the academy system, rather than of heighway or Liverpool's system. It is true I think, that the system is set-up so one the big clubs doesnt miss out on the next gem, and it's a case of the big clubs widening their nets, and to hell with the rest.

 

I think the critical time for developing talent is probably their late teens, and it's clear the lack of opportunities at bigger clubs does thwart alot of burgeoning talent out there, but like I said, it's not our problem alone, and Heighway should not be held to account for this. The best advice for young players today would probably to start out a good club, but not a big club. I think it probably damages alot of players' careers to start at a bigger club, and there is possibly alot of 'lost' talent going to waste. The good doesn't necessarily will out, unless it's given the right guidance, then talent, or rather the opprtunity to develop talent, will go to waste

[Maldini]

Remind me how many of the current England team came through West Ham's academy. It was a lot. They seem to have one hell of a set-up.

 

Also, there's something rotting in the washing-up in my sink. I'm going to leave it for a few more days, though, because it smells like Plasticine and is making me all nostalgic.

Their catchment area has a population of 15-20m, ours is about 5m

 

None at all. The academy coaches were very pessimistic about the chances of anyone in the u17s/19s at the time yet those lads have gone on to win the youth cup.

You sure it's the lads who have just come up from the u16s? The lads who won the youth cup last year, Threllfall, Barnett etc have been lauded for years as Heighways golden generation. It must be them. The lads a year younger are meant to have a few class acts too though so it could feasibly have been them. How long ago was it? The majority of the youth cup winning lads were only promoted to the academy full time last summer.

 

I agree, but once we had cottoned on we looked at all the academies in Europe looking for a decent blueprint to start from. The Ajax academy was chosen as the best example, due to the fact that around 90+% of the dutch national team had spent time in the Ajax academy. Our academy was then developed using the Ajax academy as the basis of design

Welch - Anderson, great possibility of being priceless, well that him well and truly bòlloxed

Yeah but Ajax can recruit from all over Holland we can only recruit from within a 90 minute travelling distance (60minutes for under 14s)

 

Wasn't Scholes pinched from Oldham?

He was yeah