ADHD - does it exist?

[Andy @ Allerton]

What do we think?

[RBM]

Why, have you been diagnosed?

[Tosh]

I think AD

 

what was the question again?

[Jiggy Hates Jazz]

yeah, Sky are selling it for 300 quid and a tenner per month

[Andy @ Allerton]

How come no one had it when I was a child?

 

How come it seems to have only surfaced within the last 10 or 15 years?

 

How come there is no medical proof to support it?

 

 

Not being funny here - would actually like answers to those questions.

[RP]

It's like nut allergies.

[RBM]

How come no one had it when I was a child? Because Medical science is always making new discoveries and diagnosing behaviour patterns are become more sophisticated as more time is focused on it.

 

How come it seems to have only surfaced within the last 10 or 15 years? See above

 

How come there is no medical proof to support it? Because not all conditions have a physical symptom. Depression isn't a physical illness, yet nobody desputes it exists. Same with ME a dibilitating illness with no known cause yet its still there. Just because medicine can't determine it at present doesn't mean they won't or that it doesn't exist.

Not being funny here - would actually like answers to those questions.

Edited July 12, 2006 by Rushiesbushymoustache

[John am Rhein]

What do we think?

 

No

[Bailo]

Definitely yes.

[Andy @ Allerton]

Rushiesbushymoustache

 

"QUOTE(Andy @ Jul 12 2006, 11:44)

 

How come no one had it when I was a child? Because Medical science is always making new discoveries and diagnosing behaviour patterns are become more sophisticated as more time is focused on it.

 

How come it seems to have only surfaced within the last 10 or 15 years? See above

 

How come there is no medical proof to support it? Because not all conditions have a physical symptom. Depression isn't a physical illness, yet nobody desputes it exists. Same with ME a dibilitating illness with no known cause yet its still there. Just because medicine can't determine it at present doesn't mean they won't or that it doesn't exist.

Not being funny here - would actually like answers to those questions."

 

But as a Doctor on Radio 5 was discussing today - there haven't actually been any new discoveries made.

 

Which makes me ask the question again.

 

He said there was no medical proof - just opinions

[RBM]

Rushiesbushymoustache

 

"QUOTE(Andy @ Jul 12 2006, 11:44)

 

How come no one had it when I was a child? Because Medical science is always making new discoveries and diagnosing behaviour patterns are become more sophisticated as more time is focused on it.

 

How come it seems to have only surfaced within the last 10 or 15 years? See above

 

How come there is no medical proof to support it? Because not all conditions have a physical symptom. Depression isn't a physical illness, yet nobody desputes it exists. Same with ME a dibilitating illness with no known cause yet its still there. Just because medicine can't determine it at present doesn't mean they won't or that it doesn't exist.

Not being funny here - would actually like answers to those questions."

 

But as a Doctor on Radio 5 was discussing today - there haven't actually been any new discoveries made.

 

Which makes me ask the question again.

 

He said there was no medical proof - just opinions

 

That's the same as with all psycological disorders, it is based on the opinion of the Psychaiatrist by profiling patterns with the patient, to make the most likely assesment.

 

Just because something wasn't discovered 20 years ago didn't mean it wasn't there, are you seriously suggesting that because at a certain point dyslexia didn't exist because nobody had discovered it? This is another disorder witn no physical evidence that people disputed for years, but is now excepted that it exists. This can be applied to all medical conditions and until they are discovered thay can hardly do any research into it.

[John am Rhein]

I think this is just a reclassification/relabelling of things to manipulate how things are researched and funded.

 

It's a similar story with (e.g.) renaming dyslexia as 'specific learning difficulties' IMO.

 

'Depression' certainly seems to exist, but calling it an 'illness' or a 'disease' seems to be redefining what words like 'illness; and 'disease' mean. I'd have thought depression was -in some cases - a symptom of an illness and - in many other cases - just a normal response to events. Treating 'depression' and these other semi-made-up illnesses with drugs is particularly insidious, IMO.

[Bailo]

I think this is just a reclassification/relabelling of things to manipulate how things are researched and funded.

 

It's a similar story with (e.g.) renaming dyslexia as 'specific learning difficulties' IMO.

 

'Depression' certainly seems to exist, but calling it an 'illness' or a 'disease' seems to be redefining what words like 'illness; and 'disease' mean. I'd have thought depression was -in some cases - a symptom of an illness and - in many other cases - just a normal response to events. Treating 'depression' and these other semi-made-up illnesses with drugs is particularly insidious, IMO.

I thought depression was in some cases linked to an imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain - surely this would fall under "illness"? I don't know why, but I always think that "diseases" apply to a group of conditions caused by an infection - but then I guess it could be called an "infection" then

 

It's all semantics ultimately. And ADHD does exist, I'm convinced by first-hand experience if not any direct evidence.

[casey]

I think this is just a reclassification/relabelling of things to manipulate how things are researched and funded.

 

It's a similar story with (e.g.) renaming dyslexia as 'specific learning difficulties' IMO.

 

'Depression' certainly seems to exist, but calling it an 'illness' or a 'disease' seems to be redefining what words like 'illness; and 'disease' mean. I'd have thought depression was -in some cases - a symptom of an illness and - in many other cases - just a normal response to events. Treating 'depression' and these other semi-made-up illnesses with drugs is particularly insidious, IMO.

 

As someone who has suffered badly with depression and PDSD I could not have got through without the pills.

 

 

What do we think?

 

 

I think that ADHD is a good description for a problem some children/adults have. What exactly it is, well I don't know, that it exists, I am sure of. I think maybe years ago you got the cane a letter home to parents and a reputation for being disruptive.

[John am Rhein]

As someone who has suffered badly with depression and PDSD I could not have got through without the pills.

 

I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't mean that everybody they diagnose with their (IMO arbitrarily broad) definition of 'depression' should have those pills.

 

I gave up seeing doctors a few years back because I had the feeling I was experiencing a massive drug-pushing institution.

 

The pills don't work? Well, you obviously need to take more!

[RBM]

I think the condition probably has many different causes and symptoms and that ADHD is an umbrella term collecting them under one condition

[John am Rhein]

I thought depression was in some cases linked to an imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain - surely this would fall under "illness"?

 

That's certainly right - although they don't seem to have a coherent explanation of what the 'correct' balance is in any set of circumstances. If/when bad things happen, it's quite likely that the balance of neurotransmitters SHOULD change and this is actually entirely natural and healthy (?)

 

In any case, 'depression' seems to me to be the symptom there, not the illness.

 

As you say, it's semantics, but they seem to be in the business of altering the semantics in such a way as to attract additional funding, sell more drugs, etc.

[casey]

I'm sure that's true, but it doesn't mean that everybody they diagnose with their (IMO arbitrarily broad) definition of 'depression' should have those pills.

 

I gave up seeing doctors a few years back because I had the feeling I was experiencing a massive drug-pushing institution.

 

The pills don't work? Well, you obviously need to take more!

 

 

I now know the signs and go the docs and ask for my happy pills, there is probably a better way but I just need a quick way I don't have time to wait and see.

 

BTW if I take anymore pills at the moment I will float away on a cloud of ignorance. HMMM on the other hand that may not be a bad thing.

[John am Rhein]

I think the condition probably has many different causes and symptoms and that ADHD is an umbrella term collecting them under one condition

 

Exactly.

 

And what on earth is the use/point of that?

[RBM]

Exactly.

 

And what on earth is the use/point of that?

 

Probably because if it has a name it give it validation, and the child can be seen to have a genuine problem that they can attempt to treat rather than simply being dismissed as disruptive or a bad influence

[Andy @ Allerton]

I just think it's yet another example of society disbelieving that anything is anyones fault.

 

- Kids acting like total f***ing idiots?!

 

- There must be something medical wrong with them.

 

There cannot possibly be an answer like "They are total f***ing idiots"

[John am Rhein]

Probably because if it has a name it give it validation, and the child can be seen to have a genuine problem that they can attempt to treat rather than simply being dismissed as disruptive or a bad influence

 

'Treat' to me implies 'medicalizing' what may, quite likely, be a non-medical problem.

 

Andy's got a point here, IMO.

[RBM]

I just think it's yet another example of society disbelieving that anything is anyones fault.

 

- Kids acting like total f***ing idiots?!

 

- There must be something medical wrong with them.

 

There cannot possibly be an answer like "They are total f***ing idiots"

 

Or there might actually be something wrong with them. Your attitude is one that would have had perfectly intelligent people dismissed as useless idiots in the past because they couldn't read, when they actually had Dyslexia.

 

Does colour blindness exist?

[Andy @ Allerton]

Or there might actually be something wrong with them. Your attitude is one that would have had perfectly intelligent people dismissed as useless idiots in the past because they couldn't read, when they actually had Dyslexia.

 

Does colour blindness exist?

 

 

I am sure that this condition does exist - although it hasn't been sufficiently explained - but I am also sure that in the cases of some unruly gits - this is sometimes used to 'excuse' their behaviour.

 

Blanket terms like this let some get away with unreasonable behaviour as its far more convinient to write it off in this way rather than looking at the actual reasons for disruptive/unreasonable behaviour.

[RBM]

'Treat' to me implies 'medicalizing' what may, quite likely, be a non-medical problem.

 

Andy's got a point here, IMO.

 

But it posibly could be a medical problem, and that avenue should be investigated for the good of the child before they are dismissed. It could be something as an intollerance or an allergy to something in their diet, it could be a chemical or hormonal imbalance, or again it could be a socialisation issue. As I said before I don't believe it's one trigger and it is an umbrella term but i certainly believe the condition exists and that it should be investigated in order for it to be resolved although there is unlikely to be firm single solution.

 

I am sure that this condition does exist - although it hasn't been sufficiently explained - but I am also sure that in the cases of some unruly gits - this is sometimes used to 'excuse' their behaviour.

 

Blanket terms like this let some get away with unreasonable behaviour as its far more convinient to write it off in this way rather than looking at the actual reasons for disruptive/unreasonable behaviour.

 

But by giving it a term it allows it to be investigated and treatment given to those with a genuine problem, and the behaviour of those who don't can be rectified. I agree that there have always been bad misbehaving children, which often stems from home and their socialisation but there are also those who do have medical conditions.