The walters step over

Didn't you cringe even the tiniest bit though during Bellamy's interview after the match? No apology for dragging the clubs name through the mud or for disrupting the build up to the biggest game of the our season - He didn't feel that he owed us? Or the club? Obviously, it's brilliant that we won, but when others point out the downsides I don't think it's justified to jump on our high horse and shout about "media bias". For what it's worth, my own opinion is that Bellamy will be gone next year, not due to his temper, but more to do with the fact that he's not the clinical striker that we need.

It's funny because he left us. IT WAS 3 YEARS AGO!! GET OVER IT, YOU CHILDISH T**T!

At his best (his first 18 mnths with us) Hesky was almost unstoppable, and if you'd asked most fans -or Houllier- at the time then the only argument was whether Owen or Fowler partnered him. I find it a little depressing to read so many threads on here that are so eager to have a pop at ex-players of ours.

Good point, still don't see how Owen's "people" have twisted the story to make him sound better though (which was the original accusation made by Mr. KIte).

Did he go on to explain how dropping one of our two strikers that have found the net regularly this season for the one that hasn't would improve the team? If they really did say6 Dowie was a better manager than Rafa, then it just goes to show the level of the programme tbh.

Which is a fair point of view if you go along with the theory that Owen somehow controls everything the papers and T.V. say/write about him (it IS quite a popular viewpoint). The fact that this "new excuse" comes from somebody completely unconnected to him, in an interview to flog a book that he features in very little, and actually could be read as an insult -"HAHA he actually burst in to tears.. can you believe that?" would suggest that as far as Balague knows, this is the truth. And why would Balgue even bother, one year after the event?

I'd normally agree with you on that, but there's an awful lot of quotation marks in there. Usually when they talk b******* you don't get direct quotes, just the usual "this reporter understands.." bull. I would suggest that tomorrow we should let Rafa, and the "un - named director" exactly how we feel about them. If Benitez walks over this, then the whole board wants lining up against a wall.

You can never say never, but realistically I think next season may well be the year. The new signings will have bedded in and hopefully next summer we will only see 1 or 2 top quality players come in for a reallly goood charge at it. However, I did think somerthing similar last year, so I may well be wrong

Personally, I think Gerrrard played on the left to accomodate Alonso's place in the team. Pennant has shown enough to deserve his place and Rafa didn't want to drop Xabi so Gerrard has to play either on the left or just off the main striker. I agree with you about the Crouch/Bellamy swap though, although you could ask how Bellamy is supposed to regain his form if he doesn't get a regular game. It's all well and good keeping the squad fresh but then the impact of doing that is lost if come March we're not in contention for any of the major trophies. I do have a lot of optimism that the second half of the season we're going to be a force to be reckoned with, I just hope that we will still have major honours to play for.

That is perhaps THE funniest sentance I've ever read on this forum - "yeah, well, apart from 15 years service, playing whilst clearly injured to help the team, scoring lots of goals and digging us out of so many holes I can't count them all and bringing in much needed revenue through his high profile - WHAT DID OWEN EVER DO FOR US?" I'm kind of angry at myself for rising to the bait (again) but the sheer, utter f*** wittidness of some on here is almost beyond belief. No sympathy for a guy that did so much for us? What a nice person you are - I presume that in the summer of '04 you have a large bet on us winning the Cl as it seems to have been absolutely clear to most on here that we were going to win it, how Owen didn't think the same is beyond me! HE WENT TO THE BIGGEST CLUB IN THE WORLD - GET OVER IT! As for lying to the fans, let's not get all high and mighty about this, or do you recommend the club should get rid of Gerrard as well? A proffessional sportsman actually trying to maximise his talent? What a t***! I've never heard of such a thing before! I've come up with a list of points for the hard of thinking that perhaps shows that maybe, just maybe Owen did actually think highly of the club after all, these include: - Being at the club for 15 odd years. - scoring lots of goals. - playing whilst clearly not match fit - not usually a sign of someone that doesn't care. - on his winter break actually coming back to Anfield to watch games,as well as the CL semi. - Actually coming out publicly and stating that he wanted to return. - The continual stories of him having a clause in his Newcastle contract stating that he could come here for £12m, which appeared in EVERY newspaper at one point or another and was NEVER denied by either Owen or Newcastle. - The fact that Rick Parry appeared on radio 5live last year to confirm that Owen had AGREED a contract to rejoin us but that Newcastle had scuppered any chance of us agreeing a fee with Madrid. Still, the rumour mongers "know people that know people at the club" and they know that Owen could easily have returned if he'd wanted, just like they knew that Jermain Defoe had definately signed a contract with us before the WC and we were just waiting for the tournament to finish before he was paraded as our new star striker. The Owen deal didn't come off, sometimes these things happen and it's nobodys particular fault (yes, Owen could have demanded that he rejoin us - he actually did in a personal plea to Perez). Madrid didn't want to face another Morientes situation whereby a striker that they'd treated badly came back to bite them on the a*** and with Newcasle refusing to go away Owen was faced with the situation of either spending half a season in the stands and hoping that we come back in for him in Jan, or joining Newcastle for a year and coming back this summer. Obviously, things haven't worked out for him as he would have hoped. There seems to be an awful lot of people on here that have never made a mistake, or bad decision in their lives - personally, I envy them. If you could pass on your secrets, I'd be very gratefull.

It's part of being a fan these days, I'm afraid. If a good/v.good/great player leaves us on his own terms then he is absolutely, positively a money grabbing t*** (even if he takes a pay cut to leave) - 12,13 years of loyal service is dismissed as "well, he was never that good anyway" but when we benefit from players running their contracts down/having clauses for £6m/wanting to experience life in a different country then these players are invariably going to be deemed as "loyal" players who "love" the club. Funny old World innit?

Absolutely bang on. Ive had many an argument with bluenoses whereby I've said much the same thing. They broke the British transfer record on Cottee 3 years later (enough of a time for the economic implications not being in europe to kick in) and through the 90's although they hated "agent" Johnston they were consistently the highest spenders in England during his stewardship. Remember, the only club that competed with us for the record signature of Collymore was Everton, and they were even willing to shell out £10m plus on Shearer during this time. They just spent the money on s*** players, and appointed the wrong managers - a bit like us, really. As a result of bad management their finances inevitably suffered but I suppose instead of facing up to these problems it's easier to blame us. I can understand the anger at the time (I was spat on by Norwich fans when we played them in that ridiculous f***** "super cup" competition) but for evertonians to blame us for all their problems since just ignores all of the facts.

There are some that would say we were in that position in the summer of 2004. There are some that say that if Owen hadn't scored against Newcastle on the last day of that season then we would really be up s*** creek due to the fact that it took roughly £10m to pay off Houllier and his staff off and had we not qualified for the Cl ( "a magnificent achievement" according to Houllier) then the board could in no way afford to sack him and Thompson. There are some that think that the board were quite willing to sell Gerrard anyway, to get Rafa on board they would have had to promise him a decent transfer kitty. If they were to sell gerrard for £30m and Rafa could find a cheaper replacement , say for example, Xabi Alonso then Rafa could use the the rest to strengthen other areas. The fact that after selling Murphy and Heskey and sending various players out on loan Rafa only had the money to buy Josemi and put the first down payment for Garcia probably tells you all you need to know about our finances at the time. This was confirmed by Parry in an interview on 5 Live (he was talking about Owen), he also went on to say that Owen to Madrid paid the balance on the Garcia transfer and enabled the club to pay the first instalment for Alonso. It was a calculated gamble by the club this year. Had it not come off...

Why did Rafa bring him in? Because he was cheap, if it doesn't work out then he can let Fowler go without too much pain - unlike, say Morientes or Cisse (or Heskey or Diouf) whereby we had to take big losses just to get rid of them. I'm not a huge fan of Fowler, I admit, and a large part of that is down to spending good money on season tickets during the mid 90's only to find out years later that the rumours going around at the time were largely true - namely that the players of that era (of which Fowler was one of the main leaders) plainly didn't give one f*** about the fans and were more interested in the status that playing for us gave them. Still, "He was only a young lad" and "he loves the club" so now apparently we have to put up with post after post whereby the last 4 years of his Liverpool career (and the time at City ) didn't actually happen and Fowler is " one of the best strikers in the world" again. Yes, he has a part to play, and if we're lucky he may well score 7-10 goals for us but you can't condemn people for saying that he's not up to it if you don't also recognise that the hyperbole that surrounds his every move is just stupidity.

I don't think anyone has ever called him sh**, but I wish people would get in the real f****** world when talking about Fowler. He was past his best 5 years ago! Yes, he can "still do a job" for us but if you seriously believe a player that Man City were willing to let go on a free (with no other takers) should be starting regularly for us and will score the goals that make us challenge for the league then you're ten years too late. He is no more than a bit part player for us this season, Kuyt and Bellamy will (probably) start the vast majority of games for us and if you believe different then you are deluding yourself. I don't think anyone has ever called him sh**, but I wish people would get in the real f****** world when talking about Fowler. He was past his best 5 years ago! Yes, he can "still do a job" for us but if you seriously believe a player that Man City were willing to let go on a free (with no other takers) should be starting regularly for us and will score the goals that make us challenge for the league then you're ten years too late. He is no more than a bit part player for us this season, Kuyt and Bellamy will (probably) start the vast majority of games for us and if you believe different then you are deluding yourself.

I remember when we resigned Rush, we were all expecting Gary Pallister to walk through the door when Liverpool had announced that they'd signed someone. Very pleasant surprise when in walked the man with the muzzy (unless you happened to be John Aldridge of course). p.s. I wonder if the internet had been around then just how many fans would have been slagging him off for leaving us to try his luck abroad for a year before wanting to return? I can just just see it now " I don't care how many goals he scored for us, he's a little Welsh t*** who should never be allowed back through the Shankly gates!" or "what d'yer mean Rushie had agreed to join the mancs before Kenny got in touch, lets boo him on his first game back at Anfield, that'll show him!" What a mistake that would have been!! Good job nothing similar would happen with today's fans

Must be great to be perfect in every aspect of life (inc. typing).

If he is captain, then he can expect to have his life scrutinised from every single angle. His missus might like the extra attention it'll bring them but I can't see Gerrard liking the fact that from now on every time he goes out of his house he'll be followed by photographers.

He is a bit of a two faced t*** (Holt, that is). I remember him doing a piece about six months ago where he absolutely crucified Beckham for wanting to play centre mid for England, Holt point being that Gerrard and Lampard were far better so Beckham should just stop moaning and get on with it. The following week Beckams "people" had obviously been in touch because Holt had an exclusive with him in Madrid, from then on he's been so far up Beckams a*** it's unreal - remember the eight page tribute he wrote when Beckham gave up the armband? sychophantic b****** at its' worst. As for his book, most Liverpool fans know all the shankley stories anyway so I can't see it flying off the shelves.

Bruce Grobbelaars book is pretty good, there's some good stories about football - like the time Rushie nicked someones bike in Rome after the '84 final and the time Souness broke a Bucharest player's jaw at Anfield because he was going round the pitch fouling our players. The best bits though are about his time in the jungle fighting the rebels in Rhodesia and the contrast between that and the pressures of playing for the best team in Europe. It was printed a while ago though so it didn't have anything about the alleged bung taking, but I'd recommend it to anyone.

You may have a point that his reputation is perhaps bigger than he deserves, but at his age he has more than enough time to develop into a superstar - and if it was a straight choice of him, Garcia or Kewell playing off the striker who would you rather have?

They're supposed to be trying to offer Baptista to Arsenal in exchange for Cesc. The only player I would want joining us would be Robinho, the others are either past their best (Ronaldo and Raul) or completely over rated (Cassano and Baptista). Mind you, if they offered a straight swap of RVN for Crouch and Bellamy then I would bite their hands off.

From what we're reading in the press, There's no chance of Terry being dropped (he's more likely to be made captain). BTW, I agree that we should try 3 at the back but in your team would you really have Gerrard as the right sided wing back?

Didn't Xavi come back from one to play in this WC? I think it only took him around 6 months to come back. Either way, Owen will play again in the Prem but I don't think that it'll be the biggest shock ever if within the next two years he retires from the game because he physically can't cope with the demands of top flight football.

Absolutely spot on Excuses are being made simply because of his importance to the team, I wonder what the reaction would have been if Hargreaves had done it instead of Rooney.