The walters step over

He was outstanding today, and I thought Kewell looked lively - I know the game was over but it was good to see two of our players confident enough to run at the oppo at try to take on their man, it makes such a difference to us and creates a lot of space for the forwards. If we can get Kewell fit then him and Yossi in the same team is potentially very exciting.

You're probably right, but with what's happened to him over the past 3/4 years he would have to be an idiot not to accept the rotation system here - and from every interview i've read by him and people who know him then he seems to be a reasonably intelligent person - it would have been easy for him to go running to the media when he was being left out at Madrid like a lot of players abroad tend to but he never and I honestly can't see him rocking the boat and making demands if he did come back.

But the fact he was behind Raul in the pecking order was more to do with the politics of the club than actual effectiveness on the pitch. Look, nobody's denying that there are better strikers out there than Owen, and if money were no object and it was up to me then Owen would be down the list but to me it just makes a lot os sense. Allardyce is making noises about Owen not fitting into his long ball system and seems to be open to the possibility of him going and when you ally that with the price then it's virtually a no brainer. He's dealt with people bringing up Istanbul and his reception when he first came back to anfield with good grace and humour when he could easily have spat his dummy and had a go at our fans - He'll know that this would be his best chance of getting anymore success in his career and I believe that he would accept starting 1 in 3 games and being perhaps used primarily as a high impact sub. We have to come around to the possibilty that uncles George and Tom aren't going to be investing huge amounts in the transfer market without sales to balance the spreadsheets and this would be a financially sound transfer that would leave money to strenghten other areas presuming Crouch and Riise do go in Jan. Whether it happens or not we'll have to wait and see but to see the name of Kenwyn Jones being discussed has me shaking my head as much as when Darren Bent was being talked about last year, or for those with longer memories that of Dion Dublin.

What a total load of f****** crap!! I despair sometimes, I really do.How do know that if Owen returned he DEMAND star billing? A proven penalty box striker that wouldn't need time to bed in, would instantly give Gerrard and Carra a boost and has a better goals per minute ratio than both Fowler and Rushie despite playing in an infinately more cautious team and all for less than the cost of Kuyt - with 18 months left on his contract he'd be able to buy himself out of Newcastle for the 1 years wages and above all someone that still is only 27 I think it would be an entirely logical transfer.

I think that's simplifying things too much, it's perfectly possible to point out what you think are mistakes by Rafa but at the same time recognise him as one of the best manager/coaches in Europe. For example,I thought he made a mistake by not bringing Owen back at the beginning of Summer 2005(and please, don't start all that traitor BS and he could have rejoined if he'd really wanted to nonsence), I would back that up by pointing out what I believe are deficiencies in the strikers purchased since but I also have faith that Rafa IS the man to bring the title to us. I think Rafa can be stubborn, and he seems to have little warmth towards his players and regards them as pieces to be moved around the chess board but I honestly cannot think of another person that I would rather have managing my club.

Spot on. Give the lad a chance but I don't think he's done any favours by the comparisons to henry that people inexplicably mad ewhen he joined.

But that happens at every successful club and will be forever more - by any sane standards 2 major trophies in 3 seasons (as well as two other finals) is incredibly succesful however you've got to be honest enough to realise that it's not always the best team that wins the cups and that the league is a much better guide to the strength of a team - and it is hard to disagree with anyone that says that there hasn't been that much improvement between Benitez and Houllier in that respect.

To be honest, I've never seen anyone on here comparing Benitezs' decisions with those of Shankly or Dalglish or Fagan so I would say that's by the by. I agree that some of the criticism of Rafa is OTT and he has my vote of confidence every day of the week - but this is an internet forum and as such if people feel that there's something happening at our club that's wrong then they should be able to post anything they like. There seems to be a growing movement on here that decrees that if anybody says anything slightly negative about Rafa's decisions or a players ability is not a true fan and should be shouted down.Like I say, I am one of the optomistic ones and I truly don't think we're THAT far away from where we want to be but people should be able to voice their concerns about the team as they feel fit without the sarcastic one liners that inevitably follow. Let's be honest, even if any of the players/staff do read these forums it isn't going to make the slightest difference in their performances.

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According to him we approached him about the job before going for Benitez, and of course he DID grow up supporting Liverpool

What did he say?

It's too early to say that about Babel and Sissoko on his first seasons' form would be good enough, if he could ever get back to that level. The other three I make you spot on, I don't really want to start another 30 page thread about this but I think a Jan move for Owen would be just what the doctor ordered.* I'm still optomistic for the season, but I feel we just need that spark to lift everyone whether it be a result or new player. *sits back in expectation of 20 odd posts stating that "we don't want that selfish wa**er here,blah,blah,f****** blah".

Yep, last months I think - He does look good though I suppose only time will tell.

I've seen clips of Pato on youtube after I read an article which described him as being the player that will change how the game is played in the future He does look very,very good I am a sad c**t though, so you've got me on that one..

There's been loads of talk about tactics,systems and rotation but something I've noticed since Rafa's been here and that's when one of our players start arguing with the opposition - The rest of our team just walk away to leave one of us against 3/4 of the other players. It happened to Masch against the Ar** and I've seen it numerous times with others (admittedly only on T.V.) - Has anyone else noticed? Do it think it's symptomatic of divisions in the squad or is it more likely that Rafa has installed into the players a "don't get involved" mentality? Personally speaking, even if our player's in the wrong (ala Kuyt vs the BS) I would still like to see our players stand beside their mates when a row is kicking off to show that we can't be pushed about.

It's a well known fact that the more you take the pi** out of Gerrard, or "Stevie Me" as he is also hilariously called on some sites - then the more commited you are as a LFC fan. I thought everyone knew that..

We do, but he's injured. Everyone knows that carra isn't great on the ball - though he has got better then when I can remember him getting absolutely slaughtered by the crowd during matches.But his strengths far outweigh that weakness and he would be the first name on anyones team sheet, it's been said before but Rafa seemed to put all his eggs in one basket in terms of cover at Cb and that was a mistake that hopefully will be put right in Jan. I truly don't think we're that far away from where we want to be and as it's been pointed out - although we've suffered some big injuries and despite the fact that we're not playing at our best we're still in touch and you never know..

I thought we had when we signed Torres and Babel but the having bought him as a winger (and before people start - Babel WAS bought instead of Mancini and was therefore meant for the left side of midfield) Rafa does seem reluctant to give Babel the run of games to become attuned to the English game.

Agree with this, sometimes you've just got to say that we were playing a very,very good team. Personally, I don't think anyone can question the attitude and desire of our players. I do think Rafa's in danger of cutting his nose off to spite his face where Crouch is concerned though. Overall though, I'm reasonably optimistic that if we can hang around near the top come Jan, bring in a couple of players and who knows...

Rafa' s just said that Torres was close for the derby so with an extra week to prepare he was worth the risk. It shows beyond any doubt that Crouch is out if someone makes a decent bid in Jan.

Does that mean operation to pin Xabis foot? If so, we're looking at about a late jan return..

could work well if Kuyt and Voronin stay close to Torres, if they drift too far apart and leave Torres against 2 CBs we will lose possession far too easily.

I think we'll win today as well. 2-0 Torres first half and Babel on the break in the 2nd half. I really,really don't want to spend the next 3/4 mnths surrounded by gloating mancs

Oh, for f**** sake.

Who is whining? Who is defeatist? Are you saying that we didn't need to add creative players as well as strikers in the summer? Jesus mate, you're the one with the sarky comments to anyone that has the temerity to say that perhaps Kuyt isn't good enough. If you think differently then fine - everybody should be allowed their opinion without the sarcasm that implies that if you disagree with Rafa's decisions then you're either an idiot/a plastic/a whinger or mentally *********.