Paul B

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Don't think he's said anything to annoy me. And how do you know he's said what he's reported to have anyway? Might be just paper talk or the journalist wanting things to sound a certain way for his own benefit.

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Sorry, Dave, but you stated earlier that you didn't see much bother so I think those of us who did ( and believe me, we saw plenty) have a completely different perspective than you. You know me and know I can look after myself and that I've been to a game or two in my time but what I saw there frightened and completely depressed me. An ugly, ugly element within that crowd took over and brought shame on our football club's name. You can argue what amount of shame it was and it will be different depending on the POV of the observer but I do not want to see anything like that again. I've already decided not to do any European aways again and won't be doing many in England, either as I have no wish to belong to the vermin I saw in Athens and at the airport.

Sorry, Sutty lad but a fair minority there at the stadium and other places in Athens WERE scum. There's no other word for them. The lad who robbed the young girl's ticket when she showed it him to compare; the hate-filled mob who ran right past me screaming they were going to tear down the fence; the yobs throwing bottles at the coppers on the main gate; the 30-40 g*******s rollign over each other fighting at the boarding gate at the airport. All things I saw personally. These people ARE scum and the word is apt in these circumstances.

Sorry lad, I can only comment on what I saw and what I saw disgusted me to the extent that I don't think I'll bother with any aways next season. There's no way anyone can excuse that kind of behaviour. It made me fear for my own safety and that of those around me. Your question there has zero relevance and sheds no light on the topic under discussion being hypothetical at best and irrelevant at worst. And also, I hate it when people piss down my neck and tell me it's raining.

Purely for selfish reasons (geography, personal likes etc) here's my ideal Premier League. Aston Villa Arsenal Birmingham City Blackburn Rovers Bolton Wanderers Bradford City Burnley Celtic Derby County Everton Leeds Utd Liverpool Man City Middlesbrough Newcastle Utd Preston NE Sunderland Wigan West Brom West Ham Utd

There seemed to be the front two or three rows on the side the players came out that were empty and one other small section on that side. Added to that, many seats were reserved for reporters and press up near that platform where the cup was given out and loads of space is lost there. No way did that lot add up to 9000 though from our estimates.

Sorry, mate, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush, just stating what I saw. I'm certainly not goiing to sit here and mentally reduce the numbers of t***ts I saw because I certainly DID see all those things outside that Metro. It was only when we walked down the hill to the bottom entrance that we saw how I think the authorities imagined things would be; normal, ordered, decently-behaved fans queueing up to enter a football match. And yes, the emotive language is entirely justified given what I witnessed. It was horrible and I had my son with me which makes my fear over the potential consequences of what could have happened that much greater.

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After witnessing first the Barca game and now this last Wednesday, I am inclined to agree with you. Yes, there will be a chain of circumstances leading to such a future disaster but until our fans truly practice restraint, the main contributory factor will be sheer badness.

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And some people are reporting it was tear gas!

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Don't know about that to be honest. It's estimated, to take the most recent example, Celtic had three non-ticket holders for every legitimate ticket holder, for their recent UEFA cup final. Yet there were very few arrests and no-one without a ticket tried to charge the gate or force their way in. I don't believe these newspaper articles are cheap shots. We have scum following us and there's no denying it. People can point to the basis for this near catastrophe and apportion blame anywhere they like, the fact is, as we all saw, the trouble came from within. Sorry, again I disagree. There was an orgy of mayhem at that Metro station entrance and no ticketless fan gave two shinys about anyone but themselves. There were twisted, contorted, white-nosed faces snarling and running up to those gates screaming, "Let's f***en gerrin at any cost." I know, I saw and heard them as they raced past me on the night.

Well I wasn't walking with you. You'd just dropped one.