timbos goals

Funnily enough I was looking at clips of the 65 final last night on LFC tv and you're dead right - we did really look superb - just as I'd always remembered. That really was some side - a team in the true sense of the word but with fantastic players in every position to whom surrendering possession was tantamount to a crime punishable by a firing squad. Then apart from the slight blip between 67-73 [when we were still pretty damn good] we managed to have a great side right up to Kenny's departure. When you think how we lose possession so easily nowadays - and for quite some time now - your heart aches. Still, we've got the base to build on especially if Agger does make it back. Onwards and upwards - to the top of the hill.

Thanks Will. Never forget the attendances for thos two testimonials. Gerry Byrne crunch crunch was 44,000 which took everyone by surprise as there hadn't been a testimonial since the early sixties I don't think and nobody could believe that many would show up. The Roger Hunt's drew 56,000 with 10,000 locked outside. Amazing scenes.

I can remember his debut at Anfield. There was quite a buzz about it as it was an unusual one. It was in a testimonial - Roger Hunt's I'd guess - and I think he may still have been with Skem and Shanks was using the match as a trial run out for him. I think he must have played for the England International All Stars as I'm sure he played in a white shirt. He looked pretty good anyroad with plenty of characteristic runs and dribbles though mainly through the middle of the pitch. Enough for Shanks to sign him anyroad.

Not sure about the Grandstand one NYR but we used to sing this one in the pub around that time. To the lines highlighted you need to quickly look from one side to the other in bewilderment a la And Now The time has come To tell you of our new sensation A man we signed from Skem To him we look With great elation He'll run Down either wing And then cut in along the byline But more, he'll score you goals That's Stevie Heighway For who is this man What has he done Defenders ask Where has he gone In every game There is no doubt That you will hear the Kopites shout Their famous call with every ball Give it to Heighway

I suspect you're right in that the Americans almost certainly don't want Rafa to be here in the summer and if they themselves are still here then we may well be minus a Spanish manager. But remember nothing is ever cast in stone and with so much at stake other scenerios could develop - if they already aren't.

This could well be the case. This deal - or non-deal - could well be the tool in their armoury to force Rafa to quit. The worst of it is as fans we know only so much so we're constantly trying to complete a jigsaw with half the pieces missing. What is certain, however, is that this period of politics, power haggling, monetary uncertainty, disingenousness [principally Parry and Americans] and media intrigue represents the most degrading and unsavoury era that I can recall in our history. A real feckin disgrace to all that's gone before. I wish we were shut of the lot of them.

A few weeks ago Rafa was quoted as saying nobody would be leaving in this window and was making noises about his desire to retain Momo. Could this now be yet another game of poker with our shreddded nerves [and Masch's] as innocent bystanders. Yet another impasse between our manager and these new employers? For their part the Americans [and Parry] re-emphasising to Rafa that they hold the purse strings here, telling him that their version of economic reality at LFC means he can have one or the other but not both [Momo and Masch]. You choose Rafa. At the moment if Rafa doesn't play ball with them then it's the Masch deal which runs out. On the other hand Rafa pushing them as far as he can, wringing every last drop of transfer money by refusing to play their game. After watching Mascherano at City there's only a complete imbecile - or a pair of football novices being guided by someone who thinks they know the game but doesn't - who would not break the bank to clinch a deal for this fella. What a unique player this guy is. Never have I seen a footballer win balls so cleanly that he he has no right to win. An amazing skill which he has seemingly perfected to an art form. A wondrous skill. His confidence on the ball is now developing too. Switching attacking emphasis, holding the ball until options present themselves. This guy is the real deal. We have to get him.

A 4-3-3 with 3 centre forwards? - Yeah - good point but don't forget as well - a central midfielder who struggles to achieve a 50/50 success rate with his passes to a red shirt, another who possibly reaches a 65/35 success rate and another who revels in killer balls, a full back who is prone to hoofing, a centre back who is not exactly Franz beckanbauer with his delivery and another centre back who is a pure rookie. Doesn't exactly encourage passing football through the midfield does it - which I'd say has been arguably - and thankfully - the most prominent feature of our last 5 wins before Reading. So, the value of Lucas/Kewell/Babbel to the football style of our last 5 wins? Might be more significant than Rafa actually thinks. Agger and Alonso can't come back quick enough. To hell with Arsenal without Hleb and Fabregas. All top teams need class players who can play football. With them yer Reading results become less of a possibility as poor decisions and bad luck aren't perhaps so crucial to the outcome.

I think your summation is spot on. Lucas's first time passing is a delight. He's the engine oil in the midfield, the sort of player who's contributions to the team can often be overlooked as most of it is just helping the ball on to a colleague. Reminds me of Gordon Milne - an unsung hero. Wouldn't be surprised if Wenger is eyeing him up as we speak. Leto has clearly got the skills but he is as inconsistent in a game as any player I've ever seen. It could be his application or maybe his stamina but at times he just seems to freeze. Other times he comes up with some fantastic bit of improvisation. Given his undoubted skills it probably is worth a year or so to see if he matures - like we used to do years ago. We did something similar with McManaman I seem to recall. Persevered. I seem to recall Macca was successful from the start against weaker opposition but shoite against anyone half decent or pacy. Yet eventually he acclimatised until he became for a while almost unplayable at his best. Leto has the ability and potential to reach that sort of level but he has got a lot of ground to make up and an awful lot of flaws to iron out. I wouldn't put money on him but the opportunity is still there for him I feel if he sorts out his blank spots.

Read the whole post and nothing but the ..whole..post Disappointment isn't writing someone off. I was actually more disappointed for the lad than anything else. I've got high hopes for Leto long term - partly as I like to back my initial judgement. Tho I have been known to be wrong occasionally - well maybe a few trillion times or so

I guess I was just a bit disappointed because he started off with a nifty bit of footwork to ghost past the full back but then fluffed a few crossing opportunities and then moreorless disappeared last night. And by the time he went off looked as if he barely had the energy to trot. I've been hoping he'd be a surprise packet based on the basic skills and touch he showed in that video clip against Boca and the way he linked with Insua. Take your point about the friendly aspect Knox but Toulouse were not exactly unfriendly. I still think Leto will come out of that shell. But maybe it'll take time. I guess he must be one of those players that needs a good deal of nurturing to coax out his inherent ability. I'm not just blaming Riise either. Like most I'm not only too aware of his limitations and faults but I also think the guy's got some terrific strengths. On reflection I do think last night he stifled Leto's game and confidence though. Pushing right up on him but not bringing him into the game anywhere near enough possibly made Leto feel like a bit of a spare part.

Very much less so. That's a bloody good point. I was wondering how come he faded so badly as the game went on last night. Maybe it was that with Riise there Leto just ...introverted. Yet when he had Insua behind him they played some good stuff in that friendly and looked a decent player. The contrast with the other flank with Arbeloa and Benayoun complimenting each other so well was stark.

I know what you mean. That Shiny Happy People one especially.

Well said [bold bit]. I've tried to hammer this home many times but it's pointless. History has already been rewritten on this one. The Kop was a cauldron every game whether you and I know different or not!! As for the 1892/RTK, If it works as the founders intend it to then fair play but preventing it from being hijacked by the look at me mee mee brigade is going to be a tall order. Good luck to them though as I certainly do think the intentions are genuinely felt. And if it does at least manage to drown out the likes of the Portsmouth guy with the blue hair and tatoos and other anny road fans like him or provide some noise against Fulham then some good will have come out of it.

There is a mindset with many of these reporters which has Liverpool placed permanently in a pigeon hole of under-achievers. I suspect some of these guys are not passionate football fans but journo graduates who have drifted into sports writing. They don't really seem to know what it is theyre watching and consequently write in cliches. Arsenal, United and Chelsea did it so it must be great. Liverpool do it so it must be ...mediocre. The fact is no true football enthusiast could fail to be lifted out of their seats by the magnificence of the move leading to Liverpooll's opener. The exhilarating first time 35 yard pass from Gerrard was alone worthy of the admission price. Kuyt's dummy and subsequent spin into the box was sensational. Torres own spin around the defender more so. His finish?...okay it should go in but these things happen. Yet the hunger and desire of Kuyt to carry on his own run and retrieve a lost cause was just compensation. It was reminscent of a Steve mcmahon cameo next to the paddock years ago. All told it was a move that would have done justice to the Brazilians of 1970 or the Dutch of 1974. I guess in the end as long as we know the score is all that matters. It is a pain though to read the shoite time after time.

I agree on both players. Certainly Leto'll do okay if called upon. though I've got to say I had expected him to display that fine technique since that was what stood out in that video clip against Boca juniors. His first touch and basic control and awareness were superb plus he turns on a sixpence. I think his full worth will be seen on bigger pitches. Tonight's was compressed which doesn't entirely suit his game which I'd guess involves a lot more running with the ball in that deceptively lollopy style. He's deffo the Argie Waddle.

I'd definitely agree with that. I think it was against Chelsea at home in the league I had him as our best player along with Kuytie. He was tackling really strongly and crisply at full back, he was composed and sure on the ball and delivering passes with an accuracy which was really impressive. All in all he looked top quality.

I'd have probably said from a while later but I agree with what you say. Maybe his final delivery and appetite for scoring still need a fair bit of work but he can deliver a mean cross and he is an excellent ball carrier and they are important just for that reason. Peter Thompson was erratic with his final balls but Shanks valued him as much for giving the rest of the team a rest while he waltzed off with the ball as anything else I think what has impressed most of all about Pennant is his determination to improve under Rafa. It's a quality I didn't think he had but he's proved people wrong on that score and I'd back him to carry on improving.

Let's hope they don't make it public then

Oh fer feck's sake - stop talking such basic sound sense

Ta again mate. I've highlighted what I see as the key points you make. From what you say then it seems that:- a] He almost certainly can buy out and come to us [and from what you said yesterday we wouldn't be disciplined for that] b] If he were to buy out and come to us there's a definite risk he could end up not being able to play for us until after Christmas, especially if United seek to challenge his 'buy out' in the courts. c] I guess it follows that his alternative to risking 4/5 months inactivity at Anfield or in limbo is to stay at MUFC where he also risks not playing, alienation etc etc I'd say then, if he looks at his situation logically and he is serious about his desire to leave, that he's actually between a rock and a hard place and that, provided LFC are prepared to go with him on it financially, he might as well jump in the deep end and come to Anfield. He wouldn't appear to have that much to lose, given the alternative of staying there unloved or probably even a lot worse. Of course, if he were to change his tack and beg forgiveness then maybe he'd get the arm around the shoulder. I doubt it though, seeing as they were touting him anyway.

In the clip I saw of Leto he reminded me more of a budding Chris Waddle than a Paddy Berger. Either would be good, of course.

Yeah, once again I'd like to give my personal thanks to Mooks and Raoul for shedding some real and proper insight into what's been going on. From so many aspects this thing has got so confused and convoluted. So much s*** including so many simply saying time after time how much they'd rather Chiellini or Baines. Yeah, but Rafa clearly doesn't, so let's concentrate on things in this feckin universe. One final thing I'd like to ask of both of you if I may which you may have already expressed in the passages you've cited but it will help a thicko like me to understand more clearly. Having regard to a] the almost certain existence of a letter from MUFC saying he can leave for a minimum fee b] the possible verbal qualification to the letter that MUFC meant to exclude LFC/Gunners/Chelsea c] Any player's rights under EU law to buy out with 2 years left on their contract subject to the compensation and disciplinary stipulations of the employment contracts d] Any other possible restrictions in the contract inserted by United in the very final analysis do you see it at all feasible that United have the power to block Heinze's move to LFC or is it simply a case that under the law Heinze can eventually do whatever he wants but risk the compensation/disciplinary consequences ? In other words - even if some arbitrator or judge were to rule that the letter did not constitute a valid variation to the transfer conditions of Heinze's employment contract or that the verbal qualification was enforceable - could Heinze still enforce his rights to leave under Human Rights law? Notwithstanding, of course, that there is always the possibility that Heinze could change his mind entirely and have Taggart's love child

Many thanks Raul and Mooks for going to such lengths to try to unravel matters. Raul, it would seem your professional insight is telling us that United's ability to prevent Heinze buying himself out may be dependant upon the existence of a special condition in the original contract to which Heinze agreed which specifically prevents Heinze from implementing such a clause 17 buy out. I guess that is a possibility. If such a restriction does exist then it would not only seem to throw even more emphasis on the content of the mysterious letter but might also explain why Heinze and his agent haven't simply invoked his 'buy out' once United began to play awkward.