timbos goals

To boldly go where no man has been before. Phasers on stun.

He did seem to walk a bit funny for the rest of the game. I thought he just had one leg shorter than the other.

I have to say I do sometimes squirm when I read a reds fan taking umbridge at perceived injustices that I personally see as something or nothing. However - and it's a massive 'however' - I don't think that as a passionate Red any of us can surely have watched football on Sky or the like this past decade or so and not picked up on the fact that the drift of pundit opinion concerning Liverpool FC and the ability/performances of the players individually [Owen/Stevie G/Nando apart] and collectively and that of their last two managers is at the very least ill-informed and at worst slanted so as to undermine and begrudge any positives those pundits may have witnessed. I have not seen anything remotely approaching the corresponding tainting of performances/abilities with regard to any other club - albeit i have with regard to the odd glaringly obvious manager. And then it will have been a manager who has achieved nothing like the success of the two LFC managers. I do not exclude Radio Merseyside from this sort of distorted coverage. Forinstance they as much as anybody have perpetuated the myth of Rafa's overall expenditure hugely exceeding that of David Moyes when as we now know an average net transfer expenditure of £16 million per annum will not hugely exceed that of many premier clubs.

It was breathtaking. It was heart-stopping. You had to rub your eyes in disbelief. It deserves it's own title a la the Cruyff funny turn. How's about the Nando pivot.

So I didn't see all their game last night but the parts I did see [let's say 2/3rds] Inter Milan seemed to be playing quite well. From what I saw they pretty much had the better possession and created about 6 or 7 reasonable or semi-reasonable scoring chances but leaked two goals and almost conceded another. So I read Henry Winter's report this morning - and he's a journo I usually enjoy - to find that my take on the game couldn't have been further from the truth and United went through comfortably. Evidently only two Inter players did themselves justice but, by inference, every United player did. I guess I know where you're coming from Kahnee. Heads they win, tails we don't.

Depressing innit? I know - let's t*** United and maybe they'll see the light.

You do wonder though Chili just whether fellow reds are being purposefully playing thick or just inadvertently being it. It's a bit like the purchase of the club and the misnomer of "not loading that purchase debt onto it". Some - including David Moores it would seem - still think that Parry and Moores insisting on the Americans sticking to that undertaking means that the Americans themselves - as distinct from the club - are forking out the interest charges on the money they borrowed to purchase us. As feckin if.

No. The facts are meant to demonstrate to anyone with half a feckin brain that the club's net spend over 5 years of Rafa's management amounts to around £80 million. This equates to around £16 million net spend per season. In terms of a so-called top flight club it's a pretty abysmal net outlay and should make anybody, let alone alleged ardent Reds, wonder just how we manage to hang onto the coat tails of the real big spenders. In addition the facts concerning wages - from a reputable source it would seem - go on to tell us [those with half a feckin brain that is] that in broad terms the additional annual amount spent by the club with the next highest wage bill to ours actually exceeds our net annual transfer outlay. Expect these facts to be headlines in every tabloid and broadsheet over the next few months - or maybe not - maybe they'll just stick to the "Rafa has spent more than Fergie" headlines which are more in keeping with their agenda.

I smell a wind up.

Spot on. And that was a marked feature of that Inter Milan performance. We blitzed the opposition each time.

It's in the eye of the beholder, Dave. Or something along those lines. Still performances like last night can make me feel like a mere 50 year old.

There have been many fabulous performances from our various teams down the years as we all know. But the last time I saw us marmalise a top European team so comprehensively and so breathtakingly as last night was a Tuesday night in may 1965 following our first ever FA Cup win. I don't think there's much more to be said. Last night - particularly those amazing opening 25 minutes - was most emphatically that good.

Can't be rsed typing out my own take as Ian K's take on LFC online is so absolutely spot on so I've taken the liberty of simply copying it with the odd insert. Some strange comments looking round the various forums. Many seem to think that because we were top and they were bottom, a win for us should have been inevitable, therefore making what happened even more disappointing than it already was. If we'd played them a week and a half ago [bH - before Harry], a win probably would have been inevitable. But what they actually are, are a top 6 team, it just took Arry to remind them of the fact. We pretty much comprehensively outplayed this top 6 team on their own patch often making them look several leagues below us in technique etc, and despite the Arry effect we deserved to win comfortably. Very comfortably. In fact 4 or 5 goals comfortably. So perhaps in the end Lady Luck simply decided she's been wearing a red shirt often enough already this season and didn't feel like getting us out of gaol again by allowing us to snatch points at the death that should have already been well in the bag much much earlier. In fact this time she handed Spurs more luck than we've had in our entire history. As it is all in all I was more than reasonably impressed - at times very much so - and liked the way we went looking for the 2nd, especially in the first 25 minutes of the 2nd half. I certainly hope the result doesn't see Rafa revert to safety 1st stuff in similar circumstances in future. As I've said a couple of times in recent threads, we now need to put it behind us and start another run. We shouldn't even need Lady Luck for most of our up and coming fixtures and we've got a great chance to get back on top some time soon. Great run lads, well done. Now let's have another one.

Probably right Mike. Could even see Masch and Alonso as central duo with SG back to playing off Torres with Keane on bench.

Good point. and totally agree. For the sort of central midfield performance I crave to see I felt that Goodison display from SG was up there with a Souness or Molby. I thought he was terrific in a far different way to his usual explosion packed killer ball self. Gently pulling strings rather than being on the end of them or trying to unravel dirty great long ropes. Once he masters the art of balancing/blending the two qualities he'll surely eclipse even Souness in that role. As it happens I don't think he managed to repeat the composure in the PSV game but I feel he'll be keen to do it thisavvy against City.

Just an observation re the applauding. From what has been passed onto me from family etc the warmth of the Kop goes back to the early part of the century. It was simply a collective manifestation of the scouse warmth present in most of the individuals that made up the crowd. There was nothing contrived. It was just the way the people were. And this came across. Loud and clear. Being a seaport, Liverpudlians were used to greeting strangers as if they'd been mates all their lives. It's still the same today with a lot of scouse folk. Though perhaps not quite as universal. From what I recall personally from the early 60's the goalkeeper applause really started to take hold after Gordon Bank's incredible performances against us during that era to the extent that he used to be greeted as if he was a Red. Other goalkeepers also seemed to raise their games and receive wild acclaim from the Kop. I particularly remember Noel Dwyer of Swansea who left the field to incredible applause. From then on it just evolved til it was done week in week out. A proud and cherished tradition.

No. He'd just about finished when I started watching so I never saw the real Billy. However, if you ask ANY Red - and I really do mean "any" Red - who happened to watch him week in week out then Billy Liddell would be the first name that they would include on any team sheet purporting to represent LFC's best ever eleven. The same goes for the generation before them who witnessed Elisha Scott. They might have rated Ray Clemence as the best in Britain, possibly the world, but they would plump for Elisha Scott every time. The reason I know is because these sort of best elevens used to take up most peoples time years ago and the arl arses would never tire of telling you of the respective merits of each generation of players.

I think I posted earlier that although signed as Left Back Emlyn rarely played there for us. And certainly not as a regular when he was at his peak. That said, I wouldn't have any other left back. As good as Gerry Byrne, alec lindsay, Barney and Nichol were in that position none come close to matching Emlyn as footballers or more significantly as a presence on the pitch. Hughes was one of a kind. An essential inclusion in any best LFC eleven. Like the mid 60's Tommy Smith.

I tell you what. Leaving aside all the marginal selection differences the LFC best eleven is one hell of a side. I certainly can't think of many clubs that could put together an eleven to match them. British or foreign. Club or international. Certainly over 42 games. The blend of sublime talent and inbred winners is staggering. It would take some side to overcome them. One thing is certain though as I reflect on all those I personally have seen. That is Keegan at his best simply couldn't be left out. He was just too irrepressible. We've never had anyone remotely approaching him for that extra special zip and explosions of energy that left the opposition gasping. Even more than Kenny and Barnesey and presumably Liddell, he could win a game with his own superhuman efforts. You simply can't not have that unique quality in any side you wish to take on the best. I think what I'm saying is that with Keegan in your best side you could put any other side to the sword. Without him and his extra "something" I'm not quite as confident.

Take your point Anny. And I do know some who feel similarly. Be interested in your dad's best eleven Anny. Obviously the Keegan thing - leaving aside the betrayal thing and Especially his take on the mid 60's Tommy Smith and the Lawler/Neal comparison and Hughes as left back.

I think a lot of it is due to the fact that most of those doing the polling/voting probably never actually saw him in the flesh week in week out. Amongst those who witnessed him I'm convinced he'd be right at the top of their lists alongside Kenny. But you're right in that he's invariably diminished in these sort of polls and the like. It's a shame but one that's probably never likely to change.

Tainted yeah but not in the eyes of every Red. In fact I'd say that most Reds I know from that era have long forgotten their initial feelings of betrayal and now view Kevin Keegan as he rightly deserves to be viewed. Which is right up at the very highest level of Reds. Possibly a touch behind Dalglish and Liddell and Scott. But certainly in the esteemed group just behind - and very possibly in another special quartet of himself, Barnes, Souness and Hansen. Personally I'd have him alongside the first three in playing terms and - crucially - effect of his playing performance and presence on the club and team.

I know where you're coming from but I just don't think it was the case. Yeah, it's certainly become the widely held view that Keegan's talent was all hewn from hard work etc etc - and, sure, Keegan himself always seems so keen to perpetuate that angle. Yet the evidence that set itself before the watching gaze of Liverpudlians for virtually every single game between August 1971 and May 1977 simply belies it. Keegan was an incredible talent - and arguably the on-field catalyst for the ensuing glut of achievement about which Liverpudlians are most proud. He could never have achieved the transformation of our level of performance that he did with even just great talent. Make no mistake, it took a rare and special talent. No matter how history - and many a Red for that matter [excluding yourself I presume from your comments about who was the better player between him and Robbie] - has conveniently re-written the script about him.

Philatery will get you everywhere - depending on where you go to buy the stamps of course. OR Appearances can be deceptive

Hard to believe that Tommy Smith hasn't got a look in. I guess only those who saw him week in week out in the mid sixties will ever really know just how amazing a footballer he was. The seventies Smith - as good as he was - doesn't come close. Jeez - he even does himself down whenever he's interviewed. But I'll never forget just how fantastic a player he was - up there with Liddell, Kenny, Keegan, Barnes and probably now SG as our ultra finest amongst so many other greats. My team - [partly in respect to my late father's insight re Elisha Scott and Liddell] Scott Lawler Smith Hansen Hughes Keegan Gerrard Souness Liddell Dalglish Rush Few clarifications. First apologies to Clemmo. Obvious reasons as he was my own favourite by a mile. Lawler was a far better defender than Neal. Both in the air and on the deck. He started as a centre back. And as an opposing goal area poacher, scoring all his 50 odd goals from open play in that manner. Neal in fairness was mister dependable, never injured since he hardly ever made a tackle and a fabulous extra right sided midfielder as he moved forward from the back linking play as well as anyone ever has in a red shirt. Hughes was signed as a left back though Shanks played him from the start as a midfielder. Despite only ever really playing there for England he was easily our best ever player in that left back position. I'd also add that as much as I don't like the guy much these days, Mark Lawrenson is unlucky not to figure only kept out by Smith's peerless mid 60's performance levels when he was the best in Europe and proved it game after game. Also Barnesey is only excluded out of respect for Liddell. Special mentions also to St John, Yeats, Hunt, Cally, Ray Kennedy, Peter and Phil Thompson, Stevie Heighway, Jamie C and also Robbie Fowler and Michael Owwn at their peaks.