BG

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Managed to find Torres ok two games ago. I think people may have got the idea that you don't rate him.

Mancs have now appointed Nomura to act as advisers - who advised the Glaziers on their takeover. The difference in capability between our lot and their lot is absolutely vast.

Shame John Barnes gave up the anchorman gig: that was always some good entertainment.

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Not sure about the Tomkins article but thought Carra had basically said he didn't want to be eased into an older statesman sort of role/was open to a new experience etc etc

Agree. I thought it was striking how when he came on how much better his movement was than our other nine outfield players. Immediately other players started looking better as he was giving them options on the ball. One of the things about us at the moment is that the movement is so poor that when a man receives the ball he often has very few options: that makes the man on the ball look bad a lot of the time but the fault is collective. And I still have hopes for him. Still think he could be a player for us.

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He's basically only had one really poor season after a good season before as the manager of a big club. And the season after that he won the title again. So I guess the Valencia players managed to pick themselves up after finishing 5th to perform for him again. Whether this happened "magically" or not who knows - but it's a matter of record.

No I really don't. You seem to rather like these facile and baseless assertions. You said: "I think the latter knew before he arrived that there were half a dozen games in the league he'd be ' worried ' about. The others he felt his side capable of winning and probably made them believe they could win." I replied that implying Mourinho only 'worried' about half a dozen games was inaccurate. In fact his preparations were meticulous for every game as numerous Chelsea and Porto players have commented and the leaked dossier on Newcastle showed. Furthermore I think it's overwhelmingly likely that Mourinho actually believed his side capable of winning every game they played and made his side they believed they could win them. So no I don't agree with your view on Mourinho.

Earlier in this thread I looked at managers who'd won the league in England at clubs who'd not won for years. I won't restate it but think it's on about page 19 or so. Rafa's certainly more cautious than Wenger or Ferguson (though this has probably contributed to his record in Europe on a per season basis being much better than either). But it's a bit of a parody to say that he doesn't send sides out without belief - particularly given the way we were steamrollering sides in the 2nd half of last season. Don't agree with your view on Mourinho: he actually did rather more than just sending his side out believing they could win. When you listen to Chelsea (and before that Porto) players talk about him they always go on about how he gave them a dossier about the individual they were likely to be playing against, highlighted their strengths and weaknesses etc

85 staff made redundant. 1 or 2 players offered to take a pay cut but apparently their pay can't be cut as they're protected by the PFA. Heartwarming stuff.

I'm feeling pretty disillusioned with football in general at present to the degree that a friend has offered me tickets to both semi-finals and the final of the world cup and I think I'm going to give it a miss.

Agree. There's always a tendency to search for one cause when things are going wrong. Personally I think our car crash of a season is the result of several things going wrong a little bit at once. And that leading to a few early losses then lost confidence, poor performances etc

One post ago you seemed to be agreeing with Kay's line that Rafa would have solved the problems if they were tactical and saying it wasn't about tactics. Not sure I get you.

Moyes and McCleish. Christ alive. The way this thread's going someone will be suggesting Redknapp in the near future. And after that it's a short step until someone suggests Phil "Phil Brown" Brown. Seriously.

It's really very obvious you've missed the latest on this: "money will be found" in the Summer (source: Gunga Din)... (FWIW I agree with your post.)

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There's one in the first team now who loads of fans thought was crap until he was about 25.

It's senseless to say that managers are successful within three years - which is what you've been saying - when the average tenure is less than that long at most big European clubs. There's no way of knowing if, for instance, Athletico Madrid might have been more successful if they'd been less trigger happy on managers. And in any case, average tenure is short for all sorts of reasons beyond just managers being sacked because the club's going backwards - Capello (twice), Del Bosque, Cruyff and Benitez all left Evans, Sounness and Houllier had managerial records which aren't in Benitez's class. Nor did they achieve anything which even comes close to Rafa's achievements here. For that reason I'd be happy to extend Rafa Benitez the chance to turn things round rather than deny him an opportunity those managers had (despite pretty obvious failings). I think the more interesting comparison to be made here is with managers who take a club that hasn't won the league in a long time and achieve that. In England in the last 40 years or so off the top of my head that is: Mourinho: one season (but on the back of the biggest transfer spree ever seen at that time in England) Dalglish (at Blackburn): think took him just under four seasons (from a lower base but, again, with very significant cash behind him) Ferguson: six or seven seasons Wilkinson: four seasons (from a low base) Graham: three seasons (though that was a fairly extraordinary season for obvious reasons) Kendall: four seasons Saunders (at Villa): seven seasons Clough (at Forest): two and half seasons Clough (at Derby): five seasons It's actually a rather more mixed picture than your three season rule when you look at managers trying to do the (much harder) task of winning the league at a club where it hasn't been won for a while. And it's getting harder to do as the league is less open than it used to be (i.e. smaller no of clubs win it over any period). And on Rafa Benitez's transfer record: you can't have it both ways. You're saying we have the players to to win the league (basically all signed by him bar the obvious) and slating the manager for failing to achieve this and yet saying his record in the market is moderate.

A more accurate assessment of his likelihood to spend money well in the transfer market would use as much of his record as possible rather than just arbitrarily limit it to some defined time period, thereby cherry picking the data, to suit a particular line of argument. And that would therefore include that he signed Torres, Mascherano, Alonso and Reina - personally I think they're probably the four best players we've signed since 1990. And all of them were signed for vastly less than they're now worth. Anyone could cherry pick through any manager's transfer record and find periods of a year or two in which money was spent and the players didn't turn out well - that's the nature of the market. Personally I'd say over £100m on Valencia, Berbatov, Nani, Anderson, the Belgrade boy whose name escapes me and Hargreaves doesn't look all that pretty from the last three years or so. But if I were the board there I wouldn't be arguing that Ferguson shouldn't be given the cash to spend as recent evidence suggests he'd waste it because you know he's also bought Ronaldo, Vidic, Rooney, Ferdinand etc etc You've also neglected to point out that in terms of Keane and Dossena a lot of the money was recouped so it's hardly like the money disappeared. And Aquilani, though disastrous this season as a result of fitness/confidence/coming into a side playing poorly etc, may still prove a good signing.

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We're no more carrying him than several others. Including some much bigger names. And yes central midfielders do look much worse when the players around them are barely moving and playing poorly. Take Flamini: for about a year for an Arsenal side playing quite well he looked a good player. Fletcher is a good player now and is recognised as such. But they didn't always consider him - indeed I vaguely recall one of Keane's points in the MUTV rant being about what a poor player he was. He basically does much the same sorts of things as Lucas but is giving the ball to more confident and, in quite a few cases, better players.

The Juve tie was a magnificent achievement too, as was Barcelona where I think no English team had ever won. The whole "ghost goal" also tends to ignore that the referee said that if he'd not given it he'd have given a penalty and sent off the keeper. Personally I meant have taken a penalty and playing against ten men for 86 minutes rather than a 1-0 lead.