BG

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Given our current financial situation any player whose agent is linking them to us as a negotiating tool might want to think about getting a new agent.

Not sure why people are saying we might not get the money to replace players sold when it was pretty obvious that the whole premise of the OP assumed this as a precondition. On that basis (ie that we had some cast iron legally binding guarantee that the money would go on buying players) I think there's a price for every player. For instance if City wanted to go to a world record fee for Torres it would be madness not to consider it properly given his recent injury record.

The thing is I don't think there's much in the way of this suspension of critical faculties going on regarding what's happened this season. Everyone agrees this was a terrible season and that Rafa personally played a big part in that. It seems to me that the divergence is around three points: (1) The exact degree to which Rafa is responsible for this season. (2) The likelihood that he'll turn it round given appropriate backing (i.e. at the bare minimum not selling to buy). (3) The likelihood should Rafa go one way or another that a manager whose record is in the same ballpark comes in - assuming no fundamental change in ownership in the pre-season. Personally my view is that if there's any major suspension of critical faculties it's more around: Point (2) in which people, you included IIRC, have argued that there's no basis for thinking Rafa can turn this round when in fact he turned round a similar situation at Valencia and it's fairly clear from his record that this season is an abberation. And point (3) in which there's a faith that for some reason Mourinho would walk here etc etc

The season's been a car crash. Much as Valencia's season was in 2001/02 (arguably worse given the relative working conditions) after winning the title for the first time in 30 odd years. He returned from his hols to win the league and the UEFA cup. Looking at his record in the last ten years it's blindingly obvious that this season, like 2001/02 at Valencia, is an anomaly. Top managers, including some of our own great ones, have had terrible seasons before and recovered. In any case it's pretty clear he's off barring some major chance in our ownership. I pray to God we get someone in whose record and ability matches or better his. Personally I put the chances of that at well under 50:50. All that said I agree with the point (I think your point IIRC) that the even more important issue than who is managing us is what resources they're given to do the job.

Hope he's coping with this. There are numerus organisations that can help, some have freephone numbers too. YNWA etc etc

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Really? Do you mean inane?

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All these "ITK" posters are hilarious. My old boss bought his local (Conference) club and subsidised them at close to £1m a year. He reckoned that most of the people working for the club outside the playing and managing staff did so at least in part as they liked passing on (mainly ridiculous) rumours about the club/the players/the new ground my boss wanted to build etc. He used to go online occasionally to read them all for entertainment. That's Conference level but basically the same things happens just about a million times more often at the big Premier League clubs.

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Last time I took in a game at the Vicente Calderon Torres was playing for them and missed a penalty. There were also four (IIRC) men sent off in the last 10 minutes of the game and enormous fight at one end involving Athletico fans only. Police and stewards just watched the whole thing.

Basically things won't resume as normal because crews and pilots are stranded in the wrong places, as are planes. However the basic principle (at least according to a pilot friend I asked) will be that say, for instance, flights restart on Wednesday then: - Those originally booked to fly on that flight on Wednesday will get on their flight (assuming it's in the right place with a crew etc) as first priority. (i.e. there will not be additional cancellations). - Second priority will be people who have Gold Cards etc for loyalty and are worth a lot to the airlines and have been stranded - After that it will likely be people stranded for longest

I'd say then we're going to have to agree to disagree on the significance of the two clubs based on our own respective experiences in Spain. I suppose all I was getting in my original post was that all clubs thing they're the biggest/most important/most special. It's part of being a fan.

While there's something in their (relative ) lack of success during that period I think it's pretty hard to argue that a move to Barca now would be a step down from Liverpool on anything other than historic grounds. They have a stadium more than twice the size of ours, the best player in the world (by a mile) and are playing absolutely incredible stuff. IMO anyone who has lived in Spain for any length of time would find it hard to argue that Barca and Madrid have a significance in Spanish life in a way which no English club even comes close to matching over here.

Total rubbish. The only thing that has changed the debate is the fact that if Rafa goes it will more than likely be to a club at least as successful as Liverpool. That's hardly surprising given the fact that his managerial record is outstanding and even less surprising that it's become clear which particular club(s) it may be as we head towards the end of the season. Only total morons were unaware that he was going to end up at a big club immediately if he left us anyway.

He hasn't changed the debate. The fact that Juve clearly want him and that he's one of the front-runners for the Madrid job has changed the debate.

FWIW I agree with your point that there's too much pessimism regarding today's news. However H and G could have sold to whoever they wanted, much as Moores did and several Portsmouth owners have done. For all we know (rather than are concluding/assuming/speculating) they still can. If they'd sold to someone for less than £300m the assets (playing staff and commercial contracts) of the club are worth so much more than that the club could very easily have been asset stripped at a good profit. It would have been a perfectly viable strategy for a c*** investor.

There would be people on here saying the same if Barca wanted to buy Nando...