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I was just checking on here to see if there was any discussion on Syria, and was surprised that there isn't. I'm not complaining that there isn't obviously, and I think it just reflects more generally a lack of interest here in the UK in the Syrian war. 

 

It's a war that has cost the lives of going on half a million (significantly more than the Bosnian war, as a comparison) and has reached depths of barbarism that are shocking even in comparison with other wars of modern times. 

 

Anyone any theories as to why there's such little interest? General fatigue towards conflict in the Middle East? Is it just a bit too complicated, without obvious good guys?

 

FWIW - some good sources:

https://pulsemedia.org 

http://www.middleeasteye.net

http://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=28113 

 

 

 

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I think it's not lack of interest or lack of care about the victims but I think that there's just a sense of complete and utter powerlessness in terms of how anything can be done. The western powers seem to be utterly unable to stop Assad and Putin and unwilling to intervene directly because of the perceived powder-keg. Not that it can get any worse. And add to that the fact that over the last few years they have swung back and forth over which side they actually support. 

Edited by charlie clown
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I think it's not lack of interest or lack of care about the victims but I think that there's just a sense of complete and utter powerlessness in terms of how anything can be done. The western powers seem to be utterly unable to stop Assad and Putin and unwilling to intervene directly because of the perceived powder-keg. Not that it can get any worse. And add to that the fact that over the last few years they have swung back and forth over which side they actually support. 

 

 

Unfortunately, the election of Trump means things are likely to get much worse, and quickly. Trump's election was a disaster for pretty much everyone of course, but in particular for Syrians (at least those in rebel-held areas). Heaven help those in eastern Aleppo right now. 

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Unfortunately, the election of Trump means things are likely to get much worse, and quickly. Trump's election was a disaster for pretty much everyone of course, but in particular for Syrians (at least those in rebel-held areas). Heaven help those in eastern Aleppo right now.

Not 100% sure that's true. Clinton was well up for a no fly zone which I believe would have caused chaos.

I can't stand trump obviously but we must remember that this is under the Obama watch.

 

I don't see how it actually gets worse really. It's bloody grim.

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It's proxy this and proxy that for the last oil in that part of the desert before it becomes uninhabitable. It's Star Trek politics, there's no side to take apart from the people who would just love to watch the footy, go and have a bit of a pray and then have their tea.

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Since doing O levels nearly 30 years ago have been told how population growth outstripping resources will lead to all sorts of conflict and international disputes. Wars in the Middle East, the superpowers holding onto their natural resources until the last possible moment, mass migration of people.

 

Remember thinking how we'd have sorted something out by then, something clever. 

Edited by D.Boon
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I've been surprised by it too but outside the human tragedy of it do find myself thinking that it's a civil war that "we" really want neither side to win. Putin has made a call and while I may disagree with the approach, bringing an end to it surely is the priority.

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It's a 'civil war' created by the British and the US to bring about regime change, very similar to Libya. The US and Britain using their out of control creation (IS). Gaddafi warned others about IS saying at the time that the scrap in Libya was being made out as a civil war but he couldn't see any Africans fighting against his army.

 

On this occasion the US and UK governments didn't count on putin being pals with Assad and backing him to the hilt that's the only difference here.

Edited by Ibby
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Assad and putin are fighting Isis, he's no angel but I know I'd rather be on his side than that of Isis

 

 

That's not really true. Assad and Putin are aiming almost their entire fire at other opposition forces. Isis is a gift to Assad. He's always wanted to argue that the only options are him or Isis. 

 

I've been surprised by it too but outside the human tragedy of it do find myself thinking that it's a civil war that "we" really want neither side to win. Putin has made a call and while I may disagree with the approach, bringing an end to it surely is the priority.

 

 

I agree with the sentiment but I think many people view it that in a civil war the levels of violence are relatively equal on all sides. In fact - all the key monitoring groups put the responsibility for the vast majority of civilian deaths as with the Assad regime. (Some at over 90%, though obviously estimates to vary, and change over time). Of course, there are hideous atrocities on all sides, but the balance of atrocities is coming from the government side, also the only side able to launch aerial bombing campaigns

 

In this sense - it isn't just a question of ending the war, but how it is ended. Really what is needed is a negotiated end to the war, between the opposition and the regime. There have been times when that might have been a possibility. However - at the minute, Assad believes he can win militarily, no concessions needed - so he'll continue to push for that, whatever the humanitarian consequences. 

 

A one-sided military victory (for anyone in this conflict) is very unlikely to bring a tidy end to violence. A one-sided govt victory will lead only to more support to Isis and a long-term guerrilla war continuing (see De Mistura's recent warnings https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/15/staffan-de-mistura-un-special-envoy-syria-terror-risk-assad-total-military-victory )

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It's what Gaddafi would have done if he had a mate like putin

 

we f***ed Libya up all on our own, didn't need Russia for that one.

I need to read more about whats going on in Syria, because it seems simply as if Russia wants an ally in the middle east and a base for its fleet, while the West wants to deny them this and neither side gives a f*** about the Syrian people. 

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we f***ed Libya up all on our own, didn't need Russia for that one.

I need to read more about whats going on in Syria, because it seems simply as if Russia wants an ally in the middle east and a base for its fleet, while the West wants to deny them this and neither side gives a f*** about the Syrian people. 

all of that is true, regardless of what else is going on

 

the social structure of Syria is complicated though and it could be argued that it needed an iron fisted regime to hold it together due to historical tensions

 

 

just like Yugoslavia in the communist era and the swift descent in to war after communism collapsed

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The situation in Aleppo is truly hellish. Hard to believe that this is being allowed to happen. C4 have been doing some of the best coverage:

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/waad-al-kateab-is-an-award-winning-film-maker-and-she-is-in-grave-danger

 

Excoriating article here:

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/we-are-no-better-nazi-appeasers-if-we-ignore-bashar-al-assads-genocide-aleppo-1594541 

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The situation in Aleppo is truly hellish. Hard to believe that this is being allowed to happen. C4 have been doing some of the best coverage:

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/waad-al-kateab-is-an-award-winning-film-maker-and-she-is-in-grave-danger

 

Excoriating article here:

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/we-are-no-better-nazi-appeasers-if-we-ignore-bashar-al-assads-genocide-aleppo-1594541

Look at how the story is represented here and how similar emotive language is used. It's a f*** you and the truth is buried deep

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.rt.com/document/584008ddc46188d6638b469c/amp?client=ms-android-samsung

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  • 2 weeks later...

A complete and utter f***ing mess. Bosnia all over again. 

 

Children > unaccompanied or separated from their families, are trapped in a building, under heavy attack in east Aleppo,” Unicef said in a statement. “We urge all parties to the conflict to allow the safe and immediate evacuation of all children.”

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/13/red-cross-urgent-plea-to-save-civilians-aleppo-syria

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