Arrogance and belief

[Jim Royle]

It would appear that our squad is getting close to being capable of making a sustained challenge for the title but based on games like today which we dominate yet either draw or lose the game there is still something missing.

 

Is the the real belief that we are the best (some called it arrogance) but whatever its name it is something that we lack as a team. Shankly was the master at making his players and team believe that it were the best and that everyone else was inferior.

 

Having talent and the right team players can only take you so far but to get to the final level you need that something extra.

 

I think its more noticable against the big teams where we really dont believe we can beat them and 9 out of 10 times we dont.

 

Its not about the managers personality as even the mild mannered Bob Paisley had that winning belief and so did all his teams and players.

 

We are Liverpool Football club and all others are inferior.

[Rahul]

There were a lot of tired players out there.

 

In fairness Arsenal struggled similarly against Pompey.

[boohog]

Torres needs more time to adjust to the climate, the league and playing away so he can dominate other teams like he does at Anfield. Then maybe we'll be there.

[Billy Dane]

I think Hicks made a valid point when he said he thought our team lacked the belief they could beat Utd. This belief will make the difference between winning the league and finishing top 4.

 

Interesting that we seem to display this belief in Europe though.

[Nebraska Red]

it would also help if the opposition did not sit 9 or 10 men behind the ball at home like Citeh did today.

 

for me, our main problem is a lack of enough impact players who can turn a game in our favor on a regular basis. we have Gerrard and Torres, but the other players who should be making an impact are not consistent. we need players like Kewell, Babel, Kuyt, Alonso and Benayoun to be making bigger contributions to our play.

[alias75]

I think we need more winners in the team, you look at Arsenal and Utd and most of their players have that little bit of arrogance in them. At the moment id say we have 3 or 4 players that dont have the right mentality to be in a title winning side. Players that look out of their depth when we play other top 4 sides.

 

The core of a very good team is there, i honestly think if you added a player like Ronaldo to the team we have now we'd be winning the league so we're not far off. Of course finding another Ronaldo is easier said than done, but if we get the right 2 world class attacking players that would make the difference.

[CaptainXabi]

Well Babel can't work miracles in 20 minutes every match. As I said in the Babel thread, he needs to start playing games. He will no doubt blow hot and cold at the beginning, but he will figure it out sooner rather than later. Kewell's goal threat is probably gone for the remainder of his career.

[Swipe]

Well Babel can't work miracles in 20 minutes every match. As I said in the Babel thread, he needs to start playing games. He will no doubt blow hot and cold at the beginning, but he will figure it out sooner rather than later. Kewell's goal threat is probably gone for the remainder of his career.

 

I can't see Harry ever get back to the level he was once at (for Leeds, it has to be said).

[alias75]

I think Harry will end his career playing in a different position to what he currently is like Barnes did. His quality is still there but he's lost that zip that made him a great player.

[Earl Hafler]

It would appear that our squad is getting close to being capable of making a sustained challenge for the title but based on games like today which we dominate yet either draw or lose the game there is still something missing.

 

I think in 2004 we were about 15 points back at this stage. We're 10 points back now.

 

The squad is better but still isn't good enough and hasn't been used to the best of it's ability

[CaptainXabi]

I think Harry will end his career playing in a different position to what he currently is like Barnes did. His quality is still there but he's lost that zip that made him a great player.

I agree. I'm starting to think that we should just stick Kewell behind Torres and put Babel on the left and tell the fullback to overlap his face off. We need creativity in the hole and it's probably our best short term solution with the added bonus of getting Babel that playing time.

[alias75]

I agree. I'm starting to think that we should just stick Kewell behind Torres and put Babel on the left and tell the fullback to overlap his face off. We need creativity in the hole and it's probably our best short term solution with the added bonus of getting Babel that playing time.

 

He played as a 2nd striker for Australia against England and was awesome, gave Ferdinand the run around, im surprised we havent played him there more often (cant actually remember him playing there at all)

 

Should also say i think his time at the very top level may be coming to an end and a bit like Dwight Yorke he may end up as a playmaker midfielder in a lower level team.

[Earl Hafler]

Kewell - the lad just isn't good enough anymore. What people see are the flashes of old brilliance and hope they'll return - best thing is to start afresh.

[Florist Cinema Pond Goal]

Kewell - the lad just isn't good enough anymore. What people see are the flashes of old brilliance and hope they'll return - best thing is to start afresh.

 

He had a great first 45, pressing back Onouha, actually getting past him and getting in the cross. Yes, the cross could have been better but it's wide play we haven't seen the like of this season.

 

Second half, he was very sloppy in possession and should maybe have been subbed earlier.

 

Saw enough today to suggest he still has a big role to play this season.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Florist Cinema Pond Goal

[mattster]

Can't believe we are discussing Harry Kewell. Yes, he did fine, but he shouldn't be given a new contract and I think we can do better in his position. It's not just a question of Harry finding consistenct to his game, it's about him getting through a season unscathed and we can't risk wasting time on players like him, who are in and out of the team, mostly out for long periods. He has been at LFC since he was 24 I think, now he is 29 and we are still waiting for him to produce the form he showed as a young kid at Leeds. Only dreamers believe he is ever going to be that player again - I'd like to see him go in the summer, to be honest.

[goodrobotusses]

Can't believe we are discussing Harry Kewell. Yes, he did fine, but he shouldn't be given a new contract and I think we can do better in his position.

 

Who? And for how much?

[Ginu]

I'm sure that had we had match winners in Kuyt and Benayoun's positions today we would have put one of those 2 chances away. Those players have that belief that they'll put those away. Those types of match winners have that attitude based on experience. We need more quality in the side but as the original post said, we are getting there.

[mattster]

Who? And for how much?

There isn't any point discussing names or how much a certain player will cost to bring to the club, all I am saying is Kewell has been here long enough and failed, in my opinion, though maily through injuries to be fair. I mean, do you honestly believe he has been a great asset to the club, or even a good value buy for that matter?

If so, please explain, because i can't think of too many highs with Harry.

[goodrobotusses]

There isn't any point discussing names or how much a certain player will cost to bring to the club, all I am saying is Kewell has been here long enough and failed, in my opinion, though maily through injuries to be fair. I mean, do you honestly believe he has been a great asset to the club, or even a good value buy for that matter?

If so, please explain, because i can't think of too many highs with Harry.

 

I'm not doubting his injuries have wasted his talent for us, not at all. It's a crying shame that his career has been so blighted, but now he actually appears to be getting fit again and playing for his future with us, I can't think of many better options than him at left-mid who'd be a) available, or b) affordable. It's something about good left wingers being permanent crocks though... Kewell, Duff, Vicente, Robben to an extent...

[oran]

actually,benayoun is a winner.was a winner since he started first team football when he was 15.a winner in the israeli league,a winner in european competitions and a winner in the national team.

[Guz]

. His quality is still there but he's lost that zip that made him a great player.

 

Yes. And that's fine for most teams we play against I think, especially at home but when we've got the exact same type of player on the opposite wing (Yossi) and Gerrard and Kuyt are playing so deep then unless he produces something magical I dont think he's going to be anywhere near enough of a consistent threat. He did well in 05/06 because he was probably sharper and also because on the other wing we had a completely different kind of player in Gerrard who was allowed to roam and take up different positions. Being decent and neat in posession capable of the occasional good moment on both wings isn't enough.

[Coyler]

Was our last-minute win the last match not evidence of our arrogance and belief? Was United's loss at West Ham evidence of timidity and doubt?

[Ginu]

Was our last-minute win the last match not evidence of our arrogance and belief? Was United's loss at West Ham evidence of timidity and doubt?

If you want to bring up specific examples, we can look at the table to see how many times each team has come out on top. Obviously we do it to a far lesser extent.

[fred milne]

I'm starting to think that we should just stick Kewell behind Torres and put Babel on the left and tell the fullback to overlap his face off. We need creativity in the hole and it's probably our best short term solution with the added bonus of getting Babel that playing time.

There might be some merit in that idea. (I'd probably prefer Gerrard right, Benayoun left with Babel coming on as a sub but the chances of that happening are slim.)

 

Kewell might not close down the opposition holding player as well as Kuyt but there's more to being a No.10 than that..... He's shown that he's capable of spotting Torres' runs and I reckon he'd offer more of a goal-threat than Kuyt (admittedly, not difficult).

[Guest Themba]

A few things I've been saying for a wee while now. Did you see 2 weeks ago against United that all there players were up for it. Proper up for it. Anderson , who's a boy, squared up to Gerrard , Rooney was using his fat and thudding into Carra then you had nobodies like Brown strolling round Anfield thinking they're the man. You had every player in the United team who seemed to want it more they seemed to be giving up 110% while our players seemed resigne to defeat to , in their minds , the superior team.

 

Like against Chelsea after their phantom penalty , we never looked like we believed we were going to win despite being at home we went into our shell. It's not even a lack of players it's just that winning factor an that mentality. Against the blue s**** our performance and the manner of result was typical of a side who were going to win the championship yet after the game most of us still did not believe. Nobody was saying "thats what champions are made of" or "you need luck to win the title" and that in itself spoke volumes. I don't watch the premiership - I find the football distasteful- but I remember seeing a game last year when Chelsea were away to Spurs. They were 2-1 down and had lost their captain yet everyone in the team still believed they could win and it was reflected in the way they were playing. The spurs fans were s***ing themselves and the Chelsea fans were almost expectant of victory. Andy Gray (I know he's a c**k) , said something like "Chelsea will still believe they can win this as champions do". I asked myself then as I do now , if we would all believe .

 

Another point is we don't have a figure in our team who illicits hate from the opposition and is willing to fight for every team mate. Sure Gerrard does to an extent but not enough and he's only one man. Take Arsenal, Eboue , Lehman, or Toure they're all c**** but you now if something kicked off they'd be 1st over. That kind of team spirit wins a game for you. Crowding the ref is frowned upon but for me it often typifies team spirit.