Stat attack!

[Puskas]

A bit of a stat attack

(disclaimer - please note that these statistics are only numbers that can be interpreted in any number of ways!)

(second disclaimer - I think these stats are accurate - however some of them are from fydsipedia, so don't blame me if they are wrong!)

 

Rafa has been in charge for 203 competitive matches. He has won 115 of these, drawn 40 and lost 48. This means that Rafa has won 56.7% of his matches. Comparing this record with our other managers (starting with Shanks, I can't be arsed going further back than that), there is only one manager who has won a greater proportion of his games in change and that is King Kenny (60.6%). Bob Paisley is third in this list (won 56.1% of matches). The main difference (I think) between the stats for these three managers lies in the number of games drawn and lost - Benitez has lost 23.7%, Dalglish just 13.8% and Paisley 18.6%. These stats are for all competitions, not just the league.

 

(Just for comparison's sake, we've only had one (full time, sole) manager since Shankly that has not won more than half his matches - Souness. Newcastle have only one manager in their entire history who has won more than 50% of his matches in charge - Keegan.)

 

As a few have mentioned, times have changed a bit. These days you appear to need between 26 and 29 wins to win the league (i.e. you need to win between 68% and 76% of your league matches) based on the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have only once won the league with this kind of percentage of wins (in 78/79, won 30 out of 42, 71%). So (my interpretation!), what Rafa needs to do to bring the league title home is to convert some losses to draws (particularly against the other 'challengers'), and raise the win rate to match that of the best ever league season we've had in our entire history - or higher (!!!).

 

This season our record in all competitions is: played 23, won 14 (61%), drawn 7 (30%) and lost 2 (9%) - this is substantially ahead of Benitez's record so far (if we win at the weekend our league win percentage will hit 60% as well). In other words we are winning at a higher rate and we have converted more losses to draws... However, we probably still need to raise that winning percentage even higher in order to win the league...

 

Once you've finished you can make of these figures what you will

[M4TTA]

interesting, did you do those stats yourself?

[boohog]

I hope you had Kaiser proof read this.

[charlie clown]

It is interesting but I beth the CL format skews things a fair bit - draws can be quite accetable provided you win the key games whereas in the old knockout format you needed to win a greater percentage to progress. I haven't a clue what that means but there you go.

[Puskas]

interesting, did you do those stats yourself?

I found some stats in wikipedia up to april this year, and manually added up the matches since then to get Rafa's total.

[Puskas]

I hope you had Kaiser proof read this.

I wanted the stats to be relevant and statistically significant. So no.

[ManxRed]

So, if we win more games and lose less games, we will be more successful?

[Guest Kaizer]

Do you have the different figueres for league only?

[M4TTA]

I found some stats in wikipedia up to april this year, and manually added up the matches since then to get Rafa's total.

 

ah ok, thanks anyway i found it interesting.

[Puskas]

Do you have the different figueres for league only?

No, just the totals, sorry.

[Mike E]

Do you have the different figueres for league only?

 

Very jumbled but that's a good thing with stats.

 

League Pld W D L F A % W % D % L GS/G GC/G GS/GC % Pts

Dalglish 224 136 56 32 437 187 60.71 25.00 14.29 1.95 0.83 2.34 69.05

Paisley 378 212 99 67 648 294 56.08 26.19 17.72 1.71 0.78 2.20 64.81

Benitez 128 70 28 30 194 99 54.69 21.88 23.44 1.52 0.77 1.96 61.98

Fagan 84 44 25 15 141 67 52.38 29.76 17.86 1.68 0.80 2.10 62.30

Shankly 609 319 152 138 1034 622 52.38 24.96 22.66 1.70 1.02 1.66 60.70

Houllier 216 108 54 54 354 212 50.00 25.00 25.00 1.64 0.98 1.67 58.33

Evans 172 83 46 43 280 173 48.26 26.74 25.00 1.63 1.01 1.62 57.17

Souness 115 47 34 34 164 133 40.87 29.57 29.57 1.43 1.16 1.23 50.72

Joint 12 4 4 4 19 14 33.33 33.33 33.33 1.58 1.17 1.36 44.44

[millsee]

Benitez P128

Souness P115

 

 

Good god! It seemed like Souness was here for much longer than.

[Scorpion]

Mourinho had a win percentage of 67.03%

Edited December 6, 2007 by Scorpion

[Guest Kaizer]

Very jumbled but that's a good thing with stats.

 

League Pld W D L F A % W % D % L GS/G GC/G GS/GC % Pts

Dalglish 224 136 56 32 437 187 60.71 25.00 14.29 1.95 0.83 2.34 69.05

Paisley 378 212 99 67 648 294 56.08 26.19 17.72 1.71 0.78 2.20 64.81

Benitez 128 70 28 30 194 99 54.69 21.88 23.44 1.52 0.77 1.96 61.98

Fagan 84 44 25 15 141 67 52.38 29.76 17.86 1.68 0.80 2.10 62.30

Shankly 609 319 152 138 1034 622 52.38 24.96 22.66 1.70 1.02 1.66 60.70

Houllier 216 108 54 54 354 212 50.00 25.00 25.00 1.64 0.98 1.67 58.33

Evans 172 83 46 43 280 173 48.26 26.74 25.00 1.63 1.01 1.62 57.17

Souness 115 47 34 34 164 133 40.87 29.57 29.57 1.43 1.16 1.23 50.72

Joint 12 4 4 4 19 14 33.33 33.33 33.33 1.58 1.17 1.36 44.44

[Walrus]

 

That's the best post you have made in a long time

Edited December 6, 2007 by Walrus

[L19red]

too many numbers have left Kaizer speechless.

[johngibo YPC]

I'm off to tell my dad Shankly was s****

[Guest Kaizer]

That's the best post you have made in a long time

 

It was supposed to be like this.

 

Very jumbled but that's a good thing with stats.

 

League Pld W D L F A % W % D % L GS/G GC/G GS/GC % Pts

Dalglish 224 136 56 32 437 187 60.71 25.00 14.29 1.95 0.83 2.34 69.05

Paisley 378 212 99 67 648 294 56.08 26.19 17.72 1.71 0.78 2.20 64.81

Benitez 128 70 28 30 194 99 54.69 21.88 23.44 1.52 0.77 1.96 61.98

Fagan 84 44 25 15 141 67 52.38 29.76 17.86 1.68 0.80 2.10 62.30

Shankly 609 319 152 138 1034 622 52.38 24.96 22.66 1.70 1.02 1.66 60.70

Houllier 216 108 54 54 354 212 50.00 25.00 25.00 1.64 0.98 1.67 58.33

Evans 172 83 46 43 280 173 48.26 26.74 25.00 1.63 1.01 1.62 57.17

Souness 115 47 34 34 164 133 40.87 29.57 29.57 1.43 1.16 1.23 50.72

Joint 12 4 4 4 19 14 33.33 33.33 33.33 1.58 1.17 1.36 44.44

 

This is almost as interesting as the points persentage.

 

Only the team under Souness have scored less goal than the current team under Rafa.

 

This is where we need to improve tyo win the title and we are well on the way to reach the magical number at the moment.

[David Hodgson]

A bit of a stat attack

(disclaimer - please note that these statistics are only numbers that can be interpreted in any number of ways!)

(second disclaimer - I think these stats are accurate - however some of them are from fydsipedia, so don't blame me if they are wrong!)

 

Rafa has been in charge for 203 competitive matches. He has won 115 of these, drawn 40 and lost 48. This means that Rafa has won 56.7% of his matches. Comparing this record with our other managers (starting with Shanks, I can't be arsed going further back than that), there is only one manager who has won a greater proportion of his games in change and that is King Kenny (60.6%). Bob Paisley is third in this list (won 56.1% of matches). The main difference (I think) between the stats for these three managers lies in the number of games drawn and lost - Benitez has lost 23.7%, Dalglish just 13.8% and Paisley 18.6%. These stats are for all competitions, not just the league.

 

(Just for comparison's sake, we've only had one (full time, sole) manager since Shankly that has not won more than half his matches - Souness. Newcastle have only one manager in their entire history who has won more than 50% of his matches in charge - Keegan.)

 

As a few have mentioned, times have changed a bit. These days you appear to need between 26 and 29 wins to win the league (i.e. you need to win between 68% and 76% of your league matches) based on the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have only once won the league with this kind of percentage of wins (in 78/79, won 30 out of 42, 71%). So (my interpretation!), what Rafa needs to do to bring the league title home is to convert some losses to draws (particularly against the other 'challengers'), and raise the win rate to match that of the best ever league season we've had in our entire history - or higher (!!!).

 

This season our record in all competitions is: played 23, won 14 (61%), drawn 7 (30%) and lost 2 (9%) - this is substantially ahead of Benitez's record so far (if we win at the weekend our league win percentage will hit 60% as well). In other words we are winning at a higher rate and we have converted more losses to draws... However, we probably still need to raise that winning percentage even higher in order to win the league...

 

Once you've finished you can make of these figures what you will

 

There's no doubting that both Houllier and Benitez would have already won the league if you compare their best seasons to the type of points totals that won leagues in the 70's and 80's.

 

However, times are different. The fact that the league tends to be won with more points these days highlights the disparity between the top and bottom teams. Arguably, the league is less competitive now than then, in the sense that the top teams seem to run away with things.

 

Therefore, although Rafa's stats mark up him out as a worthy Liverpool manager, the comparisons to the title winners is not entirely applicable. Obviously he (like Houllier) is close to being ranked alongside the greats, but only winning the league will make the comparisons truly valid.

[Puskas]

It was supposed to be like this.

This is almost as interesting as the points persentage.

 

Only the team under Souness have scored less goal than the current team under Rafa.

 

This is where we need to improve tyo win the title and we are well on the way to reach the magical number at the moment.

The Rafa goals conceded column is also the best of all our managers (only 0.77 per game on average), which doesn't actually surprise me in the slightest. That Goals Scored divided by Goals Conceded column is quite revealing there - although it looks like our goal record under Rafa isn't that good in the league, it's the difference between the two figures that really counts. Rafa is behind Dalglish, Paisley and Fagan by that measurement and miles ahead of Souness - although having said that... so far in the league this season we have scored 1.86 goals per game and conceded 0.43, which is pretty outstanding. If we can keep that up...

[fyds]

There's no doubting that both Houllier and Benitez would have already won the league if you compare their best seasons to the type of points totals that won leagues in the 70's and 80's.

 

However, times are different. The fact that the league tends to be won with more points these days highlights the disparity between the top and bottom teams. Arguably, the league is less competitive now than then, in the sense that the top teams seem to run away with things.

 

Therefore, although Rafa's stats mark up him out as a worthy Liverpool manager, the comparisons to the title winners is not entirely applicable. Obviously he (like Houllier) is close to being ranked alongside the greats, but only winning the league will make the comparisons truly valid.

It might also have something to do with the fact that in the 70's and 80's you only got 2 points for a win.

[Maldini]

Stats me b*llocks, just watch the bleedin game

[fyds]

Stats me b*llocks, just watch the bleedin game

True enough - one small step away from Anohrakitis!

[John am Rhein]

It was supposed to be like this.

This is almost as interesting as the points persentage.

 

Only the team under Souness have scored less goal than the current team under Rafa.

 

This is where we need to improve tyo win the title and we are well on the way to reach the magical number at the moment.

 

What you've just done is shown that points and goals scored are UNcorrelated.

 

Kind of you to statistically disprove your own argument!

[Guest Kaizer]

What you've just done is shown that points and goals scored are UNcorrelated.

 

Kind of you to statistically disprove your own argument!

 

Not actually, we score enough goals at the moment and we are also in a position to win the league.

 

When we scored less, we did not find ourselves in this position.