can Rafa build a creative team?

[Magic8Ball]

Reading the guardian today I saw this quote

 

"The great thing about this team is that they are always capable of creating chances, either through individual ability or good combination play," he said. "There is never a moment in any game when you feel that we have reached a dead end in terms of imagination and creativity. We have so many players capable of a moment of brilliance. It doesn't matter whether the opposition is playing three at the back or 20 at the back."

 

It made me thing, while we did well the other night, (ignoring the scorline), the football was assured and comforting for a fan to watch.

why can't we play like that most/all of the time ie assured attacking football?

[johngibo YPC]

Who are they talking about?

[Flasher]

Quote is from Fergie

 

Ban Magic8Ball.

 

In answer to the question. Yes. See his Valencia side.

[John am Rhein]

I prefer the fact that this can be said about us:

 

"Liverpool FC, european champions five times"

[Magic8Ball]

Quote is from Fergie

 

Ban Magic8Ball.

 

In answer to the question. Yes. See his Valencia side.

Rafa's Valencia side is history, he's been here 3 years and while being a damn fine manager his skill seems to be in creating a team/formation to nullify the opposition. The missing element is being able to strike and kill them off, we don't seem any nearer being able to do that after 3 years

[Puskas]

Rafa's Valencia side is history, he's been here 3 years and while being a damn fine manager his skill seems to be in creating a team/formation to nullify the opposition. The missing element is being able to strike and kill them off, we don't seem any nearer being able to do that after 3 years

We certainly didn't kill off Besiktas. I was sweating over the result right until the end.

[Guest RedIsMyColour]

We certainly didn't kill off Besiktas. I was sweating over the result right until the end.

 

He means on a consistent basis.

[theredfella]

Reading the guardian today I saw this quote

It made me thing, while we did well the other night, (ignoring the scorline), the football was assured and comforting for a fan to watch.

why can't we play like that most/all of the time ie assured attacking football?

 

Two reasons IMO; Rafa's uber caution even against the weakest of sides and the fact that teams who play and defend as poorly as Besiktas/Derby did are few and far between.

[Gunga Din]

i'd personally like to see us play with a bit more of an attacking attitude, as i think thats when we are at our best.

[Puskas]

why can't we play like that most/all of the time ie assured attacking football?

Because we don't play Besiktas every week? Because the team is still a work in progress? Because our new players have taken some time to settle? Because some of our better players are out through injury? Because all our 'spine' players have been injured at some point this season? Because the opposition work very hard at stopping us, just as we work very hard at stopping them?

[MickeyDocs]

Rafa needs to build a winning team. That is his job and what we should expect.

 

Fergies early teams weren't renowned for their style of football. They were known for late winners (sometimes very very late like the 98th minute). They were able to compete and win 1-0 on a regular basis. He's probably built three successful teams in his tenure (21 years), and certainly the entertainment value improved over the years.

 

The media is having a massive w***fest at the moment about Arsenal. They can be accused of overplaying the ball but on their day they are devestating. There is absolutely no doubt that they play very attractive football very much in the pass and move groove. I have a few reservations about their ability to last the distance and would expect them to start dropping points as we have done recently.

 

Rafa should really take note of Mourinho. He was able to quickly build a successful winning team (based somewhat on the ability to buy any player he wanted). The emphasis was on the collective team. The basis of total football is on this emphasis.

 

Rafa has been far too cautious at times this year and it has cost us points. To win the league we are going to have to be a little more adventurous and realise that one win and one loss gives us more points than two draws. It is quite clear that Voronin and Kuyt do not offer enough threat as a pairing. Both players are however very effective as link strikers.

 

Voronin gave us a glimpse of what could be with his ability to link up with Gerrard and Benayoun, the fullbacks, and of course his strike partner. The result was immense.

 

Mascherano's recent form will give midfield the platform to be much more creative (aka attacking). I have had the feeling for a while that we will soon hit form. I just hope that this is the start of things to come.

[Magic8Ball]

Two reasons IMO; Rafa's uber caution even against the weakest of sides and the fact that teams who play and defend as poorly as Besiktas/Derby did are few and far between.

I've been thinking about this for a while and tried to convince myself the reason for Rafa's caution was because we didnt have the players capable of attacking football so Rafa was waiting to buy them. But when you look at the team we can put out even missing Alonso, Torres and Agger - I don't know what to think.

A team with Kewell, Benayoun and Gerrard attacking, Mash holding - we should be able to create enough chances against most of the teams in this league, certainly enough for an average strike pair to score 2 goals a game. So why is that not happening? is the team too busy trying to smother the opposition than create chances?

 

a note re Voronin and Kuyt - I think they have the same problem as Rooney and Tevez; note both Rooney and Tevez to date play better when Saha is on the pitch

Edited November 8, 2007 by Magic8Ball

[Puskas]

Rafa has been far too cautious at times this year and it has cost us points. To win the league we are going to have to be a little more adventurous and realise that one win and one loss gives us more points than two draws.

That's too simplistic. It very much depends on who we are playing - for example beating Blackburn but losing to Arsenal would have given us one more point sure, but we'd be an extra point behind Arsenal as well.

[Flasher]

i'd personally like to see us play with a bit more of an attacking attitude, as i think thats when we are at our best.

 

 

I think we all want that, including Rafa. The players have not been playing well enough recently IMO. Caused by injuries, loss of confidence and lack of technical ability.

 

He signed Torres, Babel and Yossi. That to me is a sign that he too wants attacking football as much as we do.

[yellow jumper]

fergie has a high opinion of his own team shocker.

[Leo No.8]

It's all about balance for me.

 

Most great teams have balance in abundance; a mixture of youth and experience is often a recipe for success, but also more pertinent to our current issues (partly due to inuries, partly Rafa) is a lack of balance between hard graft and flair, work rate and technical ability.

 

The team the other night had a better balance than many of Rafa's team of late: Aurelio (technical), Hyypia & Carragher (defensive), Arbeloa (defensive and some technical), Riise (worker), Benayoun (flair), Gerrard (all of the above), Mascherano (technical, defensive and worker), Crouch (technical) and Voronin (technical and worker).

 

Three players who have been either injured or overlooked lately who made this a far more balanced team were Aurelio, Crouch and Benayoun. We were able to retain possession and be positive with the ball so much more often because of their inclusion and I hope Rafa tries to maintain this balance more in future because our squad is both big enough and good enough to do so.

 

I think in an ideal situation only one of your centre halves should be an out and out defensive player and he is the organiser. Every team needs an out and out stopper for me, and of course for us that man is Carragher. The wide midfield areas should almost always be technical or flair players, as should at least one of the strikers and one of the central midfielders.

 

Our best team has a fantastic balance - if only they could all stay fit so we could see them play together. That team for me would be: Reina, Finnan (technical, defensive), Aurelio (technical) Carragher (defensive), Agger (technical, defensive), Alonso (technical), Mascherano (technical, defensive, worker), Gerrard (all), Kewell (flair), Benayoun (flair) and Torres (flair, technical) in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

 

I think Rafa has geared his philosophy too much into fitness. I'm all for rotation, in fact banging on about it is utterly pointless because the essence of the modern game makes rotation something which simply has to be done. Where I think Rafa has gone wrong isn't by rotating, it is by rotating based almost entirely on fitness and the opposition tactics.

 

I beleive that the balance of our own team between work rate and technical footballers should be the very first thing which should be considered before all else. Rest players by all means, but replace a flair player with another player of the same ilk.

 

Use this great squad we have assembled to put out a quality, balanced team with attacking intent every week rather than overloading with workers simply to nullify the opposition, when it's them who should be adapting their tactics necaue of all the threat we pose to them.

[Guest petelfc]

Lets win the title first and then worry about entertaining the glory-hunters.

[theredfella]

I've been thinking about this for a while and tried to convince myself the reason for Rafa's caution was because we didnt have the players capable of attacking football so Rafa was waiting to buy them. But when you look at the team we can put out even missing Alonso, Torres and Agger - I don't know what to think.

A team with Kewell, Benayoun and Gerrard attacking, Mash holding - we should be able to create enough chances against most of the teams in this league, certainly enough for an average strike pair to score 2 goals a game. So why is that not happening? is the team too busy trying to smother the opposition than create chances?

 

a note re Voronin and Kuyt - I think they have the same problem as Rooney and Tevez; note both Rooney and Tevez to date play better when Saha is on the pitch

 

There's your answer.

[John am Rhein]

He means on a consistent basis.

 

If we could do that then we'd already be where we're trying to get to

[theredfella]

Lets win the title first and then worry about entertaining the glory-hunters.

 

So what you're saying is let's win the league by playing as s***e football as is necessary to win the league and then play entertaining proper football.

 

Sounds like you're the gloryhunter there. What are you, a fan of trophies or a fan of football?

[sutty]

So what you're saying is let's win the league by playing as s***e football as is necessary to win the league and then play entertaining proper football.

 

Sounds like you're the gloryhunter there. What are you, a fan of trophies or a fan of football?

 

 

Or is he saying that winning the league by any means is the important thing before worrying about whether purists aren't sufficiently entertained?

[cymrococh]

What's the difference between (technical) and (flair)?

[sutty]

What's the difference between (technical) and (flair)?

 

 

I dunno, what is the difference between (technical) and (flair)?

[johngibo YPC]

I dunno, what is the difference between (technical) and (flair)?

 

wait, i think i've heard this one before.....

I don't have a Ferrari in my garage?

s***, wrong joke

Edited November 8, 2007 by johngibo YPC

[theredfella]

Or is he saying that winning the league by any means is the important thing before worrying about whether purists aren't sufficiently entertained?

 

Maybe so but I would hate to think that the only way initially that we can win the league is by boring teams into submission.

 

Style is pretty much as important as substance.