ajams

Just about sums it up. I can only hope this is weighing very heavily on David Moores' conscience.

Reina Johnson - Carragher - Agger - Konchesky Poulsen - Meireles Kuyt - Gerrard - Cole Torres Kuyt as the default option on the right, but with the option of Babel instead if we need more pace and penetration or Maxi if we need more finesse. Poulsen sitting in, Meireles pushing on. And, for the simple reason that he's likely to be fit more often than Aurelio, I think Konchesky will get the chance to prove himself as first choice. I think he has it in him to do an Arbeloa-esque solid job, which balance-wise would be absolutely fine with Cole in front of him drifting infield and Johnson overlapping on the right.

Dunno, I think there's more to it than individual players. Arsenal had Henry for 5 or 6 years who got more worldwide media exposure than most of our players put together. Milan, Inter, Barca, Real, even Chelsea over the last few years have consistently bought more high profile players than us, but we still outsell them in terms of shirts. There is something inherently strong about the Liverpool shirt/badge/history/"brand" I think. And Hassony, I did say 'relative' lack of success - you could argue that barring the occasional high-profile exploit we've now been "off our perch" for longer than we were ever on it.

This content is not viewable to guests.

Amazing that we've maintained such a worldwide profile despite our relative lack of success over the last two decades. Just another example of the complete lack of vision of the David Moores regime, even if it did mean we could see the relative lack of brand commercialisation as something that set us apart. Unfortunately the last few years have shown that money is absolutely fundamental to success, so fair play to Ayre for apparently doing a good job.

I don't see the two as mutually exclusive - obviously the most important thing is the ownership situation, but the club exists for what happens on the pitch. The off-pitch crap is clearly having a detrimental effect on the football side, but I'm not going to let these c**** deny me the pleasure of following the team. The perceived decline in quality of the manager and squad (if indeed it is that) reflects the fact that we're being f***ed over, but I still see the playing side as clearly separate from the board and owners, and as such they get my support as much as previous incarnations.

Fair enough - I'm trying to be as fair as I can with Hodgson, but the disastrous situation behind the scenes is certainly putting a bit of a downer on things all round.

Rafa was appointed by the same idiots that sold out to the Americans. Doesn't make him an idiot.

I would just like to disassociate myself from this thread and point out that although I currently live in Australia I am not actually Australian, and what's more I can't get Channel 10...

Quotes from Hodgson on July 3rd, two days after his appointment “The board told me that I would have to accept that somewhere during my tenure, maybe early or later, the club might be sold. The earlier it is the better. “That is what all the fans want. They want new ownership, maybe in the way Manchester City found new ownership. I don’t know whether that would be a possibility, but I can understand the fans wanting that. “They want the best for Liverpool FC. They want the best players and the best quality football and they know the only way to get that is to have quality of players on the pitch – and they cost money. “As for me, you can’t ever get set-in-stone guarantees with these things. I believe that I was selected for the right reasons and that if there are new owners they would go along with that as well. If they didn’t and they wanted a complete change, then I would have to accept that. It wouldn’t make a major dent in my career, but it would be very sad because I want to work here.”

1. No business with them 2. Apart from a couple of Adidas items that I've owned for a while I have nothing to do with any of the club's sponsors 3. I live in Australia, so no. Spreading the word about reasons for a blockade/boycott to anyone who'll listen though, fwiw 4. As above. I am not buying any club merch, paying for e-season or putting any money into the club in any way while the two c**** remain

In terms of numbers I think we're OK, with the glaring exception being our failure to sign another striker. 21 seniors is more than Chelsea (19) and Arsenal (20) and we have Ngog, Kelly and Pacheco who are all good enough to make a decent contribution.

Well Roy has said he sees him as a striker...

Watching that video of the FA Cup final I think it's safe to say we don't want Konchesky taking penalties either. Incredible that 13 of the 16 players in our squad that day were gone within 3 years. Can't help thinking we could still do with a few of them, although I'm glad we got rid of that gormless t*** Kromkamp. Maybe it's the rosy hue of nostalgia, but for all his faults selling Riise is looking a bit of a mistake these days.

Can't say I've ever been particularly impressed, but hopefully he can do a job. If he allows Agger to move back to the middle instead of Skrtel it has to be a good thing. I sense this isn't going to be a very popular thread though...

Bodes well for us re: Torres...

Nemeth might have been useful to have around, but I suppose the fact that we had a buyer for him made the temptation to sell too hard to resist. To be fair I doubt LDV would have figured much for the first team this season, and it's hard to look much beyond that right now. In 12 months he might have been seriously knocking on the door, but who knows what the situation will be this time next year - we could be after Luis Suazo or we could be signing Marlon Harewood. It's all just a symptom of the short-termism we have to put up with right now.

Ridiculous that we go into yet another season with only Ngog as backup for Torres, especially given that Ngog apparently has a hamstring problem. No surprise though really, it's been clear for a while that we're completely f***ed for as long as those two c**** are in charge. Overall I suppose things could have been worse - it's clear we were under pressure to get several players off the wage bill and I'm happy to see the back of Degen, Plessis and El Zhar - hopefully Itandje won't be far behind. We also had four players who were determined to leave in Benayoun, Riera, Cavalieri and Mascherano, as well as major question marks over Aquilani's suitability and commitment. Whether the players we've brought in are up to the job remains to be seen, but at least the manager can stand or fall on his on signings now. As for the Chelsea/Leeds comparisons, they had the pleasure of living beyond their means for a while - 'daring to dream' I think the expression was. We're just in a seemingly never-ending nightmare, slowly having the life drained out of us by these two parasites. I dread a loan extension in October, it is absolutely crucial that this situation is resolved once and for all.

He started 8 games in 06-07. Anyway, I really can't be bothered to carry on this discussion. You've clearly made your mind up already, but I don't think it's helpful to get the facts wrong if you're trying to base an argument on statistics. As for the last line, I really don't give a f*** what other fans think of our transfer business.

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just correcting some stats that you posted earlier on that made his record look worse than it actually is. 1 in 3 as first choice isn't fantastic, but it's not too bad either, and I'd suggest it's fairer to judge him on a period when he's been getting regular starts for a team he's familiar with, even if it is a crap one with little support for him worth speaking of.

I'm not a big fan of statistics, but just to clear up some misleading information from earlier in the thread, Cole is 26 years old and has been playing for 8 years, not 11. His overall league goals to starts ratio is 1 in 3, although that goes down to 1 in 5 if you take sub appearances into account. However, his record for West Ham over the last 2 seasons is 20 goals in 57 appearances. The main reservations I have about him are firstly his injury record, and secondly that he is the type of player who needs to be playing regularly. I don't think he will be at all happy sitting on the bench as back-up for Torres most of the time. Whether that means we go to 442 more often than not I don't know - I suppose we could adapt to a similar system that Chelsea use when Anelka and Drogba both play.

Indeed, although we still ended up with Rafa having to overhaul the academy. That said I'm sure Houllier did a lot for the infrastructure of the club. By the same token Hodgson surely deserves a bit of respect for getting a vastly less talented Swiss squad to the World Cup? I think that was also in part down to the European ban on English clubs - Rangers in particular capitalised on that by signing English players. Either way, Souness didn't do a great job for us as manager, despite expectations being high.

Yeah, I suppose, although it was pretty much a two team league and Rangers were throwing money around at the time.

Just as a side issue, other than Rafa have we ever appointed a manager with a major league title under his belt? I suppose Houllier won a French title with PSG, but I don't really see his CV as all that much better than Hodgson's. Edit: at the time we appointed him, I mean

I can see where you're coming from on a lot of this, and I agree that he is a pragmatic appointment although you have to wonder who else we could have got in at this point in time. Clearly the situation we're in behind the scenes is an absolute nightmare, and it's very difficult not to have that taint your perception of every aspect of the club. However I believe Hodgson has taken the job in good faith and will do his best to improve the playing side. From my point of view I am not affording Hodgson any more leeway than any other manager we've had. The fact that he hasn't proven himself at the very top level does not mean I'm adjusting my expectations to accept a drop in performance. He's the manager of Liverpool FC and his job is to compete for trophies and get us as close to the top of the table as possible. If we continue to perform poorly and struggle for results I will start to worry. At the same time I think he deserves to go about the business of restructuring the squad and getting the team to play his way without being jumped upon at every turn.