Redray

How reliable a source is Jay Spearing mam? What's her previous form?

Moyes has had money to spend. The Rooney money received was all spent on players so the theory that he has had less opportunity to sign players is a bit of a myth. Moyes has had his fair share of money by PL standards and it is the relatively poor showing of clubs like Villa and Spurs who have spent more but achieved nothing that shows them in them in a better thaqn is actually the case. Don't ignore wages either. Felliani is on about 3 million a year. 15 million was also stumped up to buy him at the last minute so they are no paupers. Their net spending last summer was more than ours. http://www.kpmg.eu/docs/20090916_Premiership_clubs_reduce_spending.pdf

No, the owners. In terms of any backlash from fans to Rafa's parting shot at them. Probably just a drop in the ocean after the initial surprise. In relation to Rafa, I had hoped that he was biding his time, using diplomacy and playing politics. We do not seem to be seeing any more cryptic messages or other evidence of covert denouncement from him and he does seem to have resigned himself to how things are.

With this in mind it would be interesting to gauge their reaction if Beneitz did bite the bullet and went to Juve (or elsewhere) at the end of the season and at the same time lamenting the fact that he was working under increasingly intolerable conditions. They probably think they have got him where they want him now. Merely a pawn in their structure and happy to tow the party line and scratch around for a fourth place spot each year. Possibly a shock to the system.

Pascal Cygan, Richard Wright, Stepanovs, Senderos, Inamoto, Pennant. Letting Anelka go. Picking Kevin Campbell to stay and ltting Andy Cole go.

"I didn't mean to injure the lad. It was bad luck to hit him on the nose because he's only 1.70m and if he had been taller I would have struck his chest."

Cue the "bet all his passes are backwards etc. etc." posts.

By the look of that, it is doubtful they will get their act together in time. Bless em.

Correct. He was the makeweight in the Owen deal with Madrid. Very much on the 'take it or leave it' principle.

Some of them are.

Another fallacy exposed. 2nd, 3rd, 4th choice signings arrived at this club, dictated by circumstance? Maybe others below this threshold? Who knows. Only if you truly believe that Benitez truly wanted Nunez at this club can you reject this as nonsense.

As far as Simao is concerned, the reason he never came might have had something to to with the fact that Benfica started s***ting themselves from a possible supporters rebellion and the revised demands for14 million instead of the 8 million that was being talked about. Rafa is a two way scapegoat here isn't he? If it he had signed and it did not not work out why the hell did we nearly double our offer for him? If we could afford it that was.

No it is not. It is distortion to ignore it.

Because we are talking about a window. This window opened when the yanks came. At the beginning of the window we got Torres. It is b******s to spread his transfer fee over the next three years to try to argue we are spending okay in comparison. At the end of this window (i.e a few months ago) the Mancs sold Ronaldo. It is b******s to include the money they got for him to narrow the gap over their spending in the three years previous by applying the money they got for him retrospectively over that period. Its trends and business models. its b******s.

The evidence is clear. It reveals that even though Man City have greater depth of quality in their sqaud, greater purchasing power, we should still finish above them because we are Liverpool. If Rafa fails to achieve this he is evidently s*** as regular miracle worker and deserves to be sacked.

Using MFletchers figures for Liverpool 2007 to date (less Torres) total net loss 18.37 Million by 3 years = 6.22 Million per season United 2007-08 Net spend: £24m loss Players in + fee: Owen Hargreaves £17m, Anderson £17m, Tomas Kuszczak £2.1m, Nani £17m, Carlos Tevez Loan, Manucho Nominal Players out + fee: Kieran Richardson £5.5m, Giuseppe Rossi £6.6m, Alan Smith £6m, Gabriel Heinze £8m, Ryan Shawcross£1m, Phil Bardsley £2m 2008-09 Net spend: £33.1m loss Players in + fee: Dimitar Berbatov £30.75m, Zoran Tosic £9m, Ritchie de Laet £0.1m Players out + fee: Gerard Pique £5m, Chris Eagles £1m, Mikael Silvestre £0.75m, 2009-10 Net spend: £13.5 m loss (not including Ronaldo) Players in + fee: Antonio Valencia £16m, Gabriel Obertan £3m, Michael Owen Free Players out + fee: Cristiano Ronaldo £80m, Lee Martin £2m, Fraizer Campbell £3.5m, Carlos Tevez Released, total 70.6 by 3 seasons = 23.53 So; Liverpool 6.22 United 23.5 Build in other variables such as strength of pre exising squad based on earlier buying ability etc. diffference is clearly substantial.

This is your position then? Or is that even if you are wrong and there does exist a substantial difference then it does not matter as the process is contrived and incidentally Fergie is a better manager anyway? Which stance? Pick one or both for the sake of surety.

What are the figures? Rimbeux takes the view there is no huge difference between the Mancs and us over this period. I will try to find the figures. Still think the difference is massive.

This thread is for discourse on the net spending of the top 4 clubs. We can discuss relative managers aptitudes (and the conditions they operate under) on other threads.

Isn't it about trends of net spending rather than just taking a linear median of all net spending over the time Rafa has been here? That will not show anything paricularly useful as there has been the significant issue of a change of ownership splicing this period. Zoom into the net figures since the Yanks arrived and if you take out the purchase of Torres (consider it an exception for the purposes of this argument) What have we got? 5million? 6 million per season net? In the same way, consider Manchester United's spending if you discount the input of Ronaldo (an exception on the Torres principle above) and I would wager there is a huge difference. Purchase/sale of one player each side is distorting the trend.

Well before the end of February the discussion will have long moved from will we finish in the top four to where we will finish in the top four.

Didn't have the stomach for the fight. Summed up by Denilson in giving up the race against Sidebe for the second goal. Stoke showed the way to do them.

Wenger the fool made all three substitutes at the same time and then paid the price with Sylvestre having to go on after he was clearly injured. Doubt if he will be criticised for this though.

Surprising, considering he is such an amenable and likeable character.