The walters step over

Yes, yes very witty. Read what your original post said (and your reply to me) and i'd say it wasn't an unfair assumption to make from what you said.

That's obviously utter boll*cks. Of course Commolli has an input but if you honestly think Kenny sat back and didn't have the final say on who was bought and for what sort of price then,ironically, in defending him you're saying that Kenny shouldn't be near the managers job at our club. Are you really saying that Kenny is a weak willed yes man who was basically bullied by Commolli into buying shyte players?

What if results don't pick up but Kenny still thinks he can do a better job than anyone else? At what point do the interests of the club become more important than what Kenny wants? What if he spunks a load of money on average British based players in the summer and next season we don't finish top ten? would the board be right to get rid then, or would it still be up to Kenny? I don't need any history lessons on what Kenny has done for/means to this club and the fans but he HAS to be judged by normal standards for the good of the clubs future. If he's the best man to lead the club forward then great, but if there's someone better then say thank you very much to Kenny and give him his payoff. No matter what happens kenny is the biggest legend ever at one of the most successful clubs ever but surely the club comes first?

The thing that Ferguson had in his favour was his recent record in Scotland, he'd shown that he could build a team to compete with bigger teams if given the time and the Utd board would have known the mess Utd were in when he took over and seen what he was doing with the youth teams which would've helped his case in keeping his job. Wenger also can point to his record over the last few years in terms of money spent/brought in and qualifying year on year for the CL. Kenny doesn't have a recent record. Nobody knows wether he can turn things around or not so everything is just guesswork and faith.

I always think the argument that "Ferguson had time, so X should have as well" just doesn't stack up. Name another five managers that have done similar across any league in Europe over the last 25 years or so. It's a hell of a lot more likely that a manager that is struggling to get the best out of his squad and is making pooor decisions will continue to make the same mistakes even if given an extra year to put things right. We've had that shown to us time and again - Souness,Evans,Houllier all had what you could call "right, this is your final chance to turn things around" seasons and not one of them did anything markedly different to what they had done previously.

I'd say that there is absolutely no chance of Kenny turning around and effectively saying that he's not up to the job and someone else should have a go. It just doesn't happen, managers always think that they can turn it around if they were given just a bit more money and time. In the same way Carra probably believes that he should be starting every week Kenny will be thinking that it IS in the best interests of the club for him to be in charge - he wouldn't have pushed so hard for the job last year otherwise.

That came from the NOTW, one of those "guess the identity of the player who.." type things. So almost certainly utterly b*llocks unless you choose to believe that someone rang up a national newspaper to say that Owen chased some kids down the street. Always amazes me how whenever a paper writes something against someone liked on here then they're obviously full of shyte and not to be taken seriously at all, but if they have a go at someone despicable like Owen then it's taken as gospel.

I would imagine if you were from Essex you'd be pulling your hair out about some of the shyte that's been written about that place over the last few years. In my experience I haven't met many people that hated liverpool, even when I lived in Manchester for a couple of years the only stick i got was about football. Tbh, I haven't heard the "self pity city" one for years but imo everyone has prejudices of one sort or another and having a thread called "why does everyone hate us" doesn't do us any favours at all because anyone reading this site that felt that way would look at it and go "see, victims again". We're the second biggest team in the country, most newspapers sales are dependent on their football coverage so why would the media deliberately set out to alienate such a big part of their potential customer base by having an agenda against us? What's more likely, that there are sections of the press/media that have an anti LFC agenda and are willing to lose their shareholders money to further that agenda OR sometimes journalists see things like the Suarez case differently to the fans of his team? Every teams fans think that the press has it in for them at one point of the season or other.

Of course I don't, that's why i didn't. I just don't understand how there's post after post that doesn't get how referring to the colour of a black mans skin (no matter how it's intended) isn't in any way the same as to calling someone ginge or big nose.

You're seriously saying that calling someone blondie or jock is the same as calling someone a name based on their skin colour?

Have you got any actual thoughts of your own?For bonus points try not to use the words "out", "to", "get", "us" or "conspiracy". Of course the Fa are spineless in lots of cases, between us we could probably come up with a top twenty of FA balls ups in the last ten years. I'm not saying the FA are right to have found Suarez guilty but the problem Suarez/Terry have is that the FA painted themselves into a corner with their stance against racism whereby if they find someone guilty then they had to bang him with a stiff penalty.

Why?

We appeal using the processes that we agree to every year when we agree to their terms and conditions for playing in the league, we can't do anymore than that. They never sat there and thought "how are we going to f*ck up LFC?", it's not a conspiracy and the FA need this like a hole in the head after they were (rightly) jumping up and down over Blatters comments, plus the complaints they make when black England players get racist abuse thrown at them at International away games. If they were going to find him guilty of racist language then they were always going to come down harshly on him otherwise Uefa/FIFA would've been within their rights to accuse them of double standards, irrespective of it being the right thing to do in any case (dealing with proven cases of racist behaviour on the pitch, that is). Ultimately, if Suarez hadn't decided to make reference to the colour of Evras skin then none of this would've happened.

The Fa can't act until the law have had their say. If he's found guilty then there's no way he won't be banned and fined by the FA, probably the same amount as Suarez. Might be putting 2+2 together here but it looks to me as though the FA were delaying Suarezs case until they'd had word on the Terry situation. They made a big noise over Blatters comments the other month and it looks as though these two incidents are what they're going to use as examples of their zero tolerance. I know there's a lot of "the FA hate us" stuff going on in the thread but i honestly think they're going to hammer Terry hard on this - there's no way they would leave themselves open to accusations of double standards and it wouldn't surprise me if Terry was told his England career is over.

But we apply to play in their league, and therefore have to abide by their rules, otherwise the whole system falls down. I would imagine that fining someone a weeks wages for a bad tackle and denying a player the right to work for a match is against British law as well but if you want to play in their competition then what can you do?

Owen won't be on anywhere near that amount I would have thought.

But that came from young black Americans trying to take the sting out of the abusive term. The idea was that if they took a word that had been used for years as an insult and started calling themselves by that term then anyone that wanted to racially insult them would have to come up with something more original. It depends on context, i used to listen to a lot of rap in as a kid when that word was used every other sentence but if I wouldn't dream of calling a black fella that because I don't have the right. I bet you any money at some point you've had a mate say something to you like "alright, w*nker. fancy a pint?". I'm also betting that you never took offence because you have that shared history together and you know he wasn't insulting you. Now what would happen if a total stranger walked up to you in the street with a big smile on his face and called you a w*nker? You'd probably chin him. Why? he only used exactly the same words as your mate, the only thing that changes things is the context. Calling someone a "white..." or a "South American.." means nothing and can't be used as evidence that Evra said something just as offensive because the history of those words being used as an insult to denote your entire race as subhuman doesn't exist.

I was just going off the report I read in the Guardian, they were basically asking why he just wasn't pulled out of the squad earlier to get treatment and were intimating that Utds Drs had tried to manage the condition rather than just giving him the time to at least try to get things sorted. If he's got a bowel disease then then chances of him playing again are slim to non existent depending on what it is and how severe. If he's got UC then even if he has an op and gets the diseased part removed, he's still going to have flare ups and it's got a decent chance of coming back so I can't see how he'd be given insurance to let him play even if he feels physically able.

If he's got the illness they're saying he has then he's finished as a pro footballer and if the Utd medical team have been slow in getting him treatment to keep him playing then they deserve to be sued to f*ck by him.

Wouldn't surprise me if his court appearance has something to do with it and the FA have told him he hasn't got a prayer of getting the job. Him dropping out saves the FA from the embarressment of being associated with another national manager in and out of court. Presumably now this leaves Hodgson with a clear run at the job?

Agree with you here. In theory Bent or Defoe would score a lot of goals playing for us but like you say signing a poacher would likely mean we wouldn't create as many chances in the first place having to accommodate a player like that. I do think getting in the right player to play that half attacking midfielder/half striker role in the Jan window will probably be the difference between us finishing top four or not and personally, looking at who we could realistically bring to the club I wouldn't be unhappy if we got Landon Donovan in on a six month loan deal.

It's a tried and trusted Ferguson plan. He accuses a player of diving, the media pick up on it because it's an easy story and the ref goes onto the pitch already knowing that if there's any doubt at all then any time Suarez goes down then he's probably faking.The opposition play up to by having a word in the refs ear every time Suarez goes down and it's odds on every clubs fans are going to be shouting cheat at him every time he touches the ball from now on to put more pressure on the ref. It's a sh*thouses trick but you can't argue that it hasn't worked. In the Guardian this morning there was a piece comparing what kenny said yesterday to "Rafa's Rant" and my worry is that at the end of the season Luis is just going to say "f*ck this, I'm off to Spain". We need to start doing the same as Utd and Chelsea, surrounding referees, waving imaginary cards and getting on the refs case from the minute the wistle blows. Showing respect for referees has given us feck all this year.

Didn't Roy Keane do his in and come back, if not quite as good as before, then at least good enough to play at the highest level? One thing in Lucas favour is his position on the pitch, a striker like Owen or Fowler losing a yard of pace is the difference between them beating a man and getting a shot off or being tackled. That intial burst of pace is not as important to sitting mids so hopefully as long as his knee can withstand a challenge Lucas could still be an important player for us next year. I would imagine we'll be recalling Shelvey from loan as cover (can we do that by the way?) with Henderson taking over Lucas' shirt.

How many times has Carra got to give the ball away before he realises he's not Beckenbaur?

The prices we paid for them aren't their fault. Carrolls been here 11 months, missed a chunk of that through injury and he's not had run of starts to establish himself so imo it's bit harsh to be talking about getting rid. Look at the strikers that have played for England over the years, no-one can say the likes of Darren Bent, Collymore,Fowler, ian Wright etc weren't good goalscorers but because they knew that when they started if they didn't contribute a goal/assist then the next game they're either on the bench or out of the squad they never settled into a rhythym and couldn't reproduce their club form. They couldn't relax and get their feet under the table and none of them had what you would call successful international careers and I think it's the same with AC. At Newcastle he knew he would start every game no matter what and could relax and just play his game, he hasn't got that here and it's taking him time to adjust to what's required. It may take him a while to get used to our style of play, or it may never happen for him here but imo the lad deserves to be given more than a start here, 10 mins there before he can be properly judged. If we get rid in Jan (and I don't believe there's a hope in hell of that happening) what do we do if his replacement doesn't settle in immediately - feck him off and bring someone else in next year?