fabfive

Don't give a s**** about it. Want it to happen but want it to happen on the quiet. Just wake up one day and there's the announcement. Keep the bloody press out of it. Just get it done.

Considering Knox claimed he knew where my card was marked, I was responding to him. Here is something I posted in the other thread: Now to me SOS needs to decide what they are going to do. Be a protest group? We'll we've seen at Leeds match go'ers don't like protests during the match and want to support the side. In spite of SOS planning that protest. So there is a message there if they hear it. Or will SOS work on their other stated aims on behalf of supporters? Things like ticketing schemes, Anfield Regeneration, etc. Things they can take ideas to Purslow and Ayers and show accomplishments on. Or do they want to hand him a list of questions about finances and transfers that we know we won't get the answers in fine detail on. He's not going to tell SOS anything more than what he would tell the media. It is a dilemma for SOS. Protest and run the risk of having supporters get tired of it as it may be seen as detrimental to the team or work more closely with the club on things. So my suggestion for those who want to protest is to take the silent approach and hold up the Red Cards on G&H. Continue that, build on it, educate supporters, and grow the silent protest. Those that want more direct action or targetting commercial sponsors of the club may, and I stress may, ultimately be seen as doing harm. A risk SOS needs to take on board. But i guess my "card is marked" per Knox.

Really? Where exactly is my card marked o'wise one? So suggesting continued protests puts me where exactly? Suggesting SOS continue their relationship with Purslow and Ayers and build on it, puts me where exactly? I just painted a different scenario if SOS goes after advertisers. It is just as plausible as others put forward. G&H could hang on and just leave us mid table. There are absolutely no guarantees they sell if we drop out of the top four. Putting more financial pressure on them by targetting advertisers and commercial sponsors means they reduce the spending budgets to compensate. The Standard Chartered deal may have some incentives should we win the League or do well in the CL but I would wager we still get significantly more from the base deal than what we received from Carlsberg. Rather than concentrate on a scenario you think/want to happen so that G&H do sell ( and good riddance when they do) it might be better to prepare for multiple scenarios. Some of them may not lead to an outcome in the time frame you think it might.

Nothing is ever easy but I sure hope this match is. Question for the stato's: The referee's for the Premier League, can some one list them all and what our record is overall when that particular ref does our match? Who's our "lucky" ref, number one on the list. Who's our "Christ not him" ref, who is at the bottom. ta in advance.

Lines of communication have been opened. They soon shut should SOS go after advertisers as that is Purslow and Ayers remit. CP sent out a warning shot basically to that effect. Be carefull what you wish for with the protests. Protesting advertisers, hurting the club commercially and financially, we slip out of the top 4, and G&H can't find a buyer except a vulture looking to cash in at a reduced rate which may mean G&H stay even longer. So we end up with the likes of Everton, with G&H still owning us, fighting for a Euro League place. If they do find someone to buy us, at that point whilst we're mid table, maybe the next owner goes for ground share as he has to put in loads of money for players to get us back to the top four and his excuse is he can't do both. God help us if there isn't a sugar daddy around if we drop down the table.

PeeG: It's not me wanting any specific question asked. Your members can decide those. I think there will be a general consensus of questions to ask. What I mentioned were ideas from SOS for the club to look into. Not just here's another list of questions CP, so what's your answer. For instance, we all know ticketing is something that effects all supporters. The club have the All Red scheme. Many didn't like it and question it. So what is SOS's postion on ticketing schemes by the club? What alternative plan, that is approved by the members, can SOS put forward for the club to respond to? Because come next summer the All Red scheme is likely to be tweaked, scrapped, or whatever. That is something SOS could be looking into so as to work with the club. Not put out a press release two days after the club announce their next scheme because some members don't like it. Just an idea like..

I think it was a decent start. And who is kidding who thinking Purslow was going to tell SOS what the financials of the transfer dealings were. Then knowing SOS would publish the minutes and God and everyone would know. People need to realize Purslow is not going to open up the books to SOS. Well, unless SOS have 500 mil waiting to buy the club. What SOS can achieve is an open line of communication with the club. To go about doing the other aims and goals of SOS as it relates to ticketing, Anfield area regeneration, etc. Purslow or Ayers aren't about to get rid of G&H. But what SOS can achieve is other goals working with the club on behalf of supporters. I think Purslow and Ayers would accept supporter input into various issues. Especially if they are constructive. Anyway, well done SOS. btw. next time take some ideas to Purslow instead of just questions.

Ngog Babel Aurelio Special mention to our big Greek at the back.

Am I? Call me sceptical then. We know G&H have people read forums*. There was talk of match protests, blockading G&H when they come to town, then an SOS meeting about it all, and Purslow calls after the SOS meeting. Could have been to preempt some actions by SOS. So let's see what the minutes of the meeting are all about and where things stand afterwards. * maybe not this one mind but others are easily read without joining.

Any news on the minutes of the meeting yet?

And you've polled those who aren't members as to what they think of SOS? Which classifies them as willfully stupid. If you were G&H and an organization of less than 3,000 was trying to put pressure on you and you see 40,000+ every match, how much would you think they represent the fans? And yes, SOS says they represent their members. So that's 3,000 then. This is why there is a conundrum. Until such time as SOS grows their membership, and represents far more fans, they are small potatoes in the scheme of things. As mentioned there are a lot of ST's who do not want any protest in and around the ground. So what's to do? What is to do is to find a way to grow SOS, imho. Find out why locals and ST's haven't joined should be the first question SOS should be asking. Here's an idea, continue the Red Card approach and raise them during the match. Nothing else. Grow the amount seen in Anfield and at the Aways. Match after match after match. It may be a slow process but so what. Let those who go see the support growing. It is something everyone can do without disrupting the game and chanting songs that may disrupt the atmosphere. Not to mention have Red v Red arguing with each other. So get rid of that. Save that for planned marches or protests away from the ground. Once to the Gates of Anfield, the protest stops. Any planned protest march should have a specific reason being highlighted. Not just a let's get the lads together and march. Have something to give to the media as to why there is a march for that specific occasion. But do them judiciously. Make them count for something. But first and foremost is to find out why people aren't joining. Especially locals and ST's. Even if there are some home truths being found out.

And to make it worse, SOS will be seen as an organization trying to make us fail. Which will sit uncomfortable with whatever % of supporters. Damn tough conundrum. Here's a sticky wicket question. What if SOS didn't protest at matches or sing they're in the wrong hands, etc and concentrated on leafleting and working with the club branches. Would SOS grow membership? Would they gain those who don't want in and around the ground protests?

Whilst we are on poor comparisions, I think the Corinthians one is a poor one as well. I'm sure ill be corrected if wrong. Hicks never bought Corinthians on his own. His consortium bought a media outlet in South America. The media outlet suggested buying into Corinthians. So they did. It all went worng, they got out. But Hicks by himself did not buy Corinthians. So there were a lot of variables in that particular deal. Hicks being just one part of the overall situation. He wasn't the cowboy owner runing rough shod over everything like he is with LFC. He wasn't about to sell the Rangers and/or Stars to keep his interest going with Corinthians. He wasn't in it for the apparent long term like it appears he is with LFC. So his personal interest with LFC far far is greater than anything that went on at Corinthians. He's got his money ( or loans against hs assets) in our club. Not some sort of consortiums money like when they bought Corinthians. If people understand that, then they will see why it is going to be much harder to shift him out of LFC. He's going to be a more stubborn SOB because he can see the holy grail with the proifts he can earn down the road when he does sell. Quite frankly trying to diminish LFC value by protesting and trying to reduce the value of the club may ultimately mean he stays much longer. The sooner the clubs value increases, the sooner he can make the profit he wants, and the sooner he and Gillett f*** off.

We're in the CL this season. Say we come 5th in the League. We get CL money next summer based onn this seasons exploits. We can afford one season out. It is the following season, baring no additional revenue coming in, that the club would tighten their belts. They wouldn't need to sell players until at least 2 years of not qualifying. again, imho.

Well Uefa Champions League chips....lol

if they add expenses, wouldn't that cut down on the net transfers? In which case if we have 20mil net according to Purslow by taking out the expenses we'd have 22-23-24mil or what ever . I guess one would need to ask ttnbd just what is in the accounts he gets and puts into laymans terms for everyone as he has been doing it for some time apparently.

As mentioned before two different types of borrowing. Leeds borrowed from future revenues to buy players and pay for the fish in the office. G&H have used their holdings as collateral to secure loans to buy the club and buy players. So far the banks are happy enough and the independent auditors are happy enough with that type of deal. Could be some problems down the road if things don't improve finacially. But G&H have taken steps there with the new shirt deal and even without that revenues are up. Unless G&H are stupid enough to go borrow against future earnings to sustain things, then we won't do a Leeds. Failing to qualify for the CL would not be a disaster for just one season. We'd have that money from the previous season to carry us through the summer transfer window. If we qualified the next season we'd be back in the chips. Only not qualifying two or more seasons on the trot could it make things worse. That would see G&H sell or get additional investors in. All imho of course.

Insua puts in some decent crosses. He did v WHU. But some of our players weren't making the runs. He sent a peach in to the centre of the box and no one was there first half. Like all players he'll not wrap his foot around the ball and it will sail into the stands. Remember he's just getting his confidence from having some first team footy. He'll get better. He'll have more assists and score a couple crackers. But he needs to be rested from time to time as well. Rafa needs to pick those times.

So you think the books are wrong inspite of independant auditors who have the paper trail on the tranfers? The summaries are put out. But the details are still there. Auditors don't go for a cup of tea and look at the summaries. They go to inspect the entire operation. If you've ever been audited you'd know.

Sorry been off the net. But here's your answer from the accounts not a website and their player values: Transfer Expenditure The one area that causes the biggest debate. Every year we have fans complaining about the amount of money spent on players and every year they get it wrong, massively. These are the true figures for the last 3 financial years. (figures in £000s) Financial Year Ending 2008 2007 2006 Purchases 69,966 69,972 41,753 Sales 29,740 25,946 16,838 Net Transfer Activity 40,226 44,026 24,915 These values include relevant levies to the premier league, VAT and agents fees. Signing on fees go straight to the Profit & Loss at time of payment. Since the year end Albert Riera, Peter Gulasci and Victor Palsson were bought by the club for total transfer fees of £7m (I assume this includes VAT and agents fees, but am not certain) Since the year end the club sold Robbie Keane and Steve Finnan for a total guaranteed income of £12.8m. However this amount will increase significantly should certain conditions be met. The whole breakdown of the accounts is here: http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=243416.0

flight; The last two years accounts shows that each of those years the net spend on players was over 40mil. Per ttnbd over on Rawk who went through them and does everytime they get published. Now we have to wait until June next year for the next set. It may come out over three sets of books we've done over 100 mil. Also, what if Purslow claims Rafa did have 20 mil and was negotiatiing with a team from Spain but they wouldn't do business based on Rafa evaluation. So Rafa has kept the money rather than spend it to just be spending it. Then what? We don't know. The club does know. And the media read forums to feed the supporters fears. Not to mention link us with 325 players per transfer window. Which leads to he's s**** or he's great comments. And we rarely buy any of them. For many G&H lied, end of, don't care any more. Yet there is a lot of apathy about joining SOS. There are 40,000+ supporters every other week and there are 3,000 SOS members. The vast majoity of those who have tickets are ST's and local and don't belong to SOS. Won't walk out of a match, won't participate in marches, and don't sing wrong hands. There is much for SOS to do to convince our own nevermind G&H. For G&H to take SOS more seriously, SOS needs to grow to significant numbers. imho. Even then I still doubt G&H will sell up until they get the offer they want. Not because they are going to hibernate away due to SOS and are scared of coming back to Liverpool. I suspect they already know they aren't wanted. Money talks. That's the end game.

Wasn't the debt 40 mil and the club purchase price 180 mil which is where 220 mil for the club came from?

You might get away with a sit in once ( or pitch invasion) but once the club got wind of it, they'd have the stewards and police ready. Anfield is private property after all.

And there in lies the problem. SOS for all their magnificant work needs to do more with Season Ticket holders. As those are the ones who go week in and week out. The rest of the ground is but what 5,000 tickets on the All Red scheme. Most of the ST's are locals. And have heard of SOS. So there is little excuse there they they don't know of SOS. The frustrating thing for SOS is to identify why ST's don't join or get involved. Until they do then any protests locally or in the ground wil be small and less effective. Which won't get G&H's attention like a massive one would.

Tevez twisted his knee saturday. Masch made it through fine. Although ego bruised do to the battering Brazil gave them.