Chewie

Lucas simply needs to look a few miles down the road and take a few lessons out of the books written by Messrs O'Shea, Fletcher, P Neville to name but a few... The lesson is this... I may not start every game, or even half of them. I am not one of the leading lights... but if I stick with this, work hard, develop physically and tactically through knuckling down here... then I may just be involved in 25-30 games per year, win a few major trophies and win over my detractors... In an era of 22 - 25 man first team squads there will always be room for players like that - 3rd or 4th choice but willing to learn, grow and develop with the potential to actually be like Fletcher and become a pretty important player. I would rather keep Lucas to fight it out in that role so that we can invest elsewhere... obligatory squad for next season follows to suit our 4-2-3-1 GK - Pepe le Peu 4 - Arbeloa, __________, Agger Skrtl, Carra, Aurelio, Insua (need right back) 2 - Masch, Alonso, Lucas + Barry 3 - Kuyt, Benni, Gerrard, Reira, maybe Babel + one more creative striker (Tevez, Silva seem to be the type we are linked with) 1 - Torres, Kuyt, Babel, N'Gog An extra attacking midfielder in the 3 behind the striker means that Kuyt can be called upon to do the Torres role if necessary. One big question is whether or not any of the kids will step up, eg. Darby for RB, or Nemeth etc That being the case I reckon a summer of adding say Glen Johnson, Gareth Barry and a top drawer creative striker to the squad would do the business. the point in all of this is that the sale of Lucas doesn't really achieve much unless we can rely on Insua for LB and for Aurelio to step into CM to make up a four with Masch, Alonso and Barry... but if I was Lucas I would go looking at the football medals and memories of O'Shea etc above and keep my head down and work hard... Chewie

just watched that again (once) and one of the things I noticed was how the team spent less time showboating to the crowd when they scored and simply celebrated with each other... it was as if they were winning for their mates and not the cameras... cue another body language thread.... but it just seemed more real. they didn't need to prove to the fans how much the fans meant to them...blah, blah, kissing shirts and all that... anyway - glorious to watch and Hansen for the first...sublime Chewie

honestly... as it was all lining up I honestly thought to myself - he should do what Gary Mac did in the derby - it looked so on! when it happened I wanted to tell someone that I had called it as I knew then that no-one would believe me afterwards! Chewie

Thank you the men in red Chewie

that could work - Agger and Sami are a far greater threat at set pieces than Carra and Skrtl... we need every scrap we can get on Tuesday... when they walk off the pitch on Tuesday night I want to be proud, not indifferent as was the response of so many last Wed... Indifference sucks... we've had that indifferent feeling for 19 years in the league.... if we fall short this year I want it to be on goal difference or by a penalty shoot-out or something.... if we lose fighting and taking risks so be it... it we simply lose then what's the point of playing...

if we stand still this summer we'll go back. The other sides will all add something new and different. Simply because we could have won it this year with a fit Torres does not mean we will next year if he is fit. I detect a renaissance at the Bridge that should have us all worried, Arsene's kids will be one year older and United will add to what they have... scum had rooney and they went out to get Tevez - similar players but both have been needed... they have ronaldo and giggs but saw fit to pay a fortune for nani who may or may not make it but who provides a similar option of lesser quality... I think our squad can win this league but there is no-one who is not replaceable or who will not need protecting at some stage next season... if any player can come in and do a better job than our existing players then so be it... they will have to earn it though and we will be the beneficiaries... This squad with a few additions can deffo win this league Reina Arbeloa Carra Skrtl Agger Aurelio Insua Masch Alonso Gerrard Kuyt Benayoun Reira Torres I would not be in a great hurry to get rid of Lucas, Darby may improve and other youth players - Nemeth, Pacecho, N'Gog need to press on - but the 14 named players - plus three more quality players, augmented by reserves and youth - can do this... I so wanted Babel to be a player but tbh he just looks like an underwhelmed athlete... Chewie

I kow it didn't come out well the way the post was formatted but it would be 3 at the back with Kuyt and Aurelio pushed out wide and Gerrard/Kuyt overlapping on right and Reira/aurelio on left... when we are going forward we should be committing 5 men to the attack Kuyt Gerrard Reira Aurelio Torres and trusting to Alonso/Masch to hold the fort.... I would also tbh give Alonso a bit more freedom to push forward and allow Agger to distribute a little more... I think we need to overwhelm them completely! I know we'll not play that way and if its our usual 4-2-3-1 I'll not be unhappy provided that Arbeloa/Aurelio bomb forward...Agger pushes the defence up and we press like mad from second 1... if we're in it at half time having given them a game we can be proud even if we run out of steam... I'll be gutted if we just fade... this is theirs to lose and ours to gain... one goal from us with even 25 minutes left and it'll go mad! Chewie

I reckon we're really gonna have to have a go for the first 45... if it ain't working after that get Gerrard and Torres off and protect em for the league... I know some discussions have already started in this but I reckon we need to really come up with something different rather than letting Essien do another job on Stevie. chelsea don't rely on width the way they used to when Cole / Robben / Duff etc were all options... it was the passing through the middle that got us... Also, bolton hammered them aerially today and we have to look at that in terms of getting numbers in the box...we also need Agger to carry an additional threat by bringing the ball out.... I'd seriously go for... Reina Carra Agger Skrtl Masch Alonso Kuyt Aurelio Gerrard Reira/Benny Torres the only doubt is whether to play Reira or Benny... I'd go for Reira for the aforementioned aerial threat.... Kuyt will work his socks off protecting that right flank and him and Gerrard can double up...ditto Aurelio and Reira... Masch and Alonso need to protect the defence and keep attack ticking over... I know it may seem a little mad changing things at this stage but we need to surprise them and really go at them and I reckon this set-up could do it... if we get to 1-0 with 45 to go they'll get nervy! C'MON THE MIGHTY REDS

you describe it as family - I think that's actually something of a key.... in real families people change their living environment when they can. They upgrade for space where possible, they change the look of the place to keep in step with the times... I get fed up with people thinking they are honouring the past when they refuse to change it - the pioneers who years ago built the shell that has changed over the years into what we now call Anfield had vision and courage and drive and probably pressed ahead even when others cried - but we can't change...this is our home...blah, blah, blah.... we don't defend the custodians who unlocked they keys in our past when we hold on to the past - we betray them, their vision, their courage and the spirit of the club that transcends every brick in every wall. Every empire that is built should have the courage to have engraved into its core the permission to the next generation to tear down and rebuild once its time has come and it no longer meets its purpose. This is the time for courage and for vision. That's what our club needs lest we get left behind. I hear the cries of those who say - so what if we end up in the Third division cos it'll be the club we love....rubbish. The club we love always aspired to be the best. Once we lose that aspiration the club we love will be dead and we'll simply be a museum. Romanticism and nostalgia didn't build our current home - hope did, idealism did, vision did. If the time is right to rebuild...let's rebuild Chewie

think there is a way of doing this without unsettling the 'Gerrard is only ever great when played through the middle brigade'... to my mind the best Rafa teams, the best set up for Torres, and the best chance at getting anything out of Keana go like this... 4-2-3-1 - torres proved during the Euros that when left up front alone with quality service and intelligent runners that he can destroy defences. When Villa got injured - Torres shone! Also, the best 2 holding midfielders we have to control games are Masch and Alonso - one's a terrier for the ball and the other is a genius at distributing it. We are so much more balanced when they are running that show. That leaves 3 creative players to play behind Torres... Riera has nailed the left sided berth...and if Aurelio or Insua plays we have genuine overlapping options... That leaves the middle and the right. I think Keane and Gerrard have the game intelligence to work this between them... I have no doubt that Gerrard can dominate the game from the centre-right position and I have no doubt that Keana can play through the middle and interchange with Gerrard... For those who want to see it on a formation I'd have it start like this but give Gerrard and Keane the freedom to use their game intelligence to link up play... Reina Arbeloa Carra/Agger/Skrtl/Hyypia (any 2 will do!) Aurelio / Insua Masch Alonso Gerrard Keane Reira Torres It was in that formation that Gerrard scored over 20 goals for goodness sake and that's when little Luis played where Keane is, Baros where Torres is, and Biscan of all people where Masch is!!! If Keane doesn't step up in that team I'd get Kuyt in and tell him and Gerrard to work the centre-right between em... anyway - here we go with a formation thread but with the players we lose more than we gain when Gerrard plays centre mid in a 4-4-2.... Chewie

I understand the sentiment but the truth is we all do mind in fact if our players are ****! A hard working bad player is still a bad player...a bad player that doesn't even work hard is a dishonest player and given what even those players are earning and what fans sacrifice to watch those players - that is unforgiveable. Bottom line is tho that we don't want **** players or lazy players at our club. Neither will take us anywhere. Perhaps part of the benefit of games like this is that it serves to allow Rafa to filter out those that need filtering. I'd rather they get found out in these games than against Bolton on Sat as much as I hate losing any game in any competition. I believe Rafa has been pretty ruthless in cutting out those players that aren't up to it - even when he's signed them. I think Dossena might well fall into that category unless there's a pretty sharp turnaround... It was poor. It's done. Hopefully Rafa has learned more from the problems this has identified. Hopefully that learning means we'll win the bigger battles to come. Chewie

I have no idea whether to agree or disagree with this in the past few seasons Rafa's teams have been really consistent in the second half of the season. We always seemed to do well in the discussions that started...if the league kicked off on the 1 Jan etc etc... trouble is that even if you can't win it in the first half of the season you can lose it. In nearly every season in the last two decades we haven't even given ourselves a chance in the second half of seasons. Given our track record we should expect to come on stronger after January...but then Rafa has never sent out his team to play with such intensity at this stage, with such a level of consistency in terms of team selection. We've got a match on Sat, then a CL game midweek, then another league game, then a CC game...its quite incessant at the moment and there are some signs of fatigue already. We are into unknown territory here in terms of where we are in the league, the commitment of the players at this stage in the season, the consistency of team selection and so on...that's why I have no idea!!! We are gonna need though other players to step up and perform when called upon. A fully fit Nando will obviously help, Keane has yet to really fire...and I have a sneaking suspicion that Babel will become more and more prominent as this season goes on. I think he's the one getting the least game time at the minute and I have a suspicion that Rafa is keeping Babel fit and fresh for the time of teh season when other teams tire. Albert's form has been so steady that he has been undroppable and I don't even think babel is his replacement. I simply think that Babel is the impact player that could make his impact on the seconed half of the season. With Keane, Torres also to hit top form we could destroy a few teams yet. We just have to hope that Rafa can keep shuffling the pack so that we don't do an Arsenal from last year and tire when the business end kicks in. All i do know is that I am loving us making a fight of it. It's great to see. What gives me real hope is that this team is largely made up of players between 23-28 with leaders all over the pitch - Reina, Carra, Agger, Masch, Gerrard, Kuyt, Torres, Keane and so on. The point about us being a team of captains in the summer is now starting to prove itself. This is not a young team nor an ageing team. This is a hungry team of players yet to win league titles who are all in the form years of their lives. If ever there is a chance to build an empire this is it. So - I still have no idea, plenty of ground for optimism and obviously some nail biting reasons for reservations.... but right now I'm riding teh wave that I hope sweeps over all before it between now and the end of May!! Chewie

just about to post the same...no mockers intended but if ever we have a chance to really go on one this is it....keep it going rafa and the mighty reds!

I hear and understand the whole 3 points is 3 points argument...but for the past few weeks we've been neck in neck with Chelsea who always have the superior goal difference. Look at last season's premiership - United's goal difference was a telling feature towards the end of the season. We need three points but we also need to complement our usual high number of clean sheets with a few thumpings for player confidence and for the pressure it puts on teams around us. Games like the Stoke one are games that we should be looking to gain that advantage Chewie

I do believe having listened to Rafa's interviews that he treats these games as chess matches during which it is important to keep it tight until the last third when it is possible to win the game. I distinctly remember the interview after the Reading defeat when it seemed this was the approach from the outset and we were scuppered by the timing of their goals. There have been occasions in the past when it has been do or die and he has emphasised the importance of stamping our authority on the game from the outset but these are exceptions that prove the rule... I don't like this mentality - I want us to go out there and believe from teh first minute that we can dominate a game and beat the opposition before half time. We won't always do it but it seems to be so much harder to up the pace of a game and change its direction than to make a real impact on that pace and direction from the off. Too often when we need to make the step up we have played ourselves in to playing badly...I really think Rafa has the nucleus of players now to impose our game on the opposition and I really hope we at least endeavour to do it. Chewie

link's working for me lads http://www.justin.tv/barcelonaecuador

this is my hope - given that we are also losing Finnan I think that the sales of Pennant (6), Voronin (3-4?) and Itandje (3?) should fund most of Barry and we should put up with losing out on the difference. Remember that would also be three wages and given that Leto is off the books (doubt he got paid much mind you) I think losing the aforementioned players and paying the surplus 3-4 million would be good business... we're covered at keeper, have plenty of options on the right and really don't need Voronin anywhere near the place, especially not at the prospect of him blocking the development of some of our young players or even getting game time at the expense of say Benayoun or Babel... Given that most people no longer see Stevie as playing as one of 2 centre midfielders (either in a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2) then I reckon having Masch, Alonso, Barry and Plessis as 4 options for 2 places makes wonderful sense... Chewie

I can understand some of the logic in a points total argument but not all fo it. For instance - the whole league could in theory strengthen which should mean fewer teams with so many points. Therefore it's about being competitive in a dog-fight rather than simply reaching a certain tally. Or - as I believe is the case - the three teams coming up will not strengthen the premier league so in theory it is weaker and we should get more points than last time or - and this I believe is the most crucial point - where we are come March will have a significant impact on our points total. If we are comfortably third going into last third of season but not challenging we will stay steady but not threaten in league and Europe and Cup will become key... if we are challenging going into last third this will mean we push on for more points...the point is that even when we've got 82 points we weren't challenging so the last few games were dead... we've also seen a couple of years back the likes of the infamous game against Fulham where we didn't really care about the points... So, for me its about being competitive against the teams around us that really counts. We have the strength in depth to do better against the lesser teams and a team full of ability, experience and indeed full of captains, should be able to compete in the big-four games...Reina, Agger, Carra, Skrtl, Masch, Barry, Gerrard, Torres, Keane should all believe they deserve to be on the same pitch as anyone ... they're all leaders, so if we shrink mentally from these big games I think we should have cause to wonder why... Chewie

Having read Royendo's wonderful piece on the evolution at Anfield etc I am wary of this becoming a guillotine thread - i.e. we must win the league or else we will meltdown, rafa should be sacked and the whole thing started again... but having signed Keane and seemingly about to sign Barry I believe this does mean that we must realistically challenge this year, and I believe Rafa knows this too... for the past 2 and a half seasons he's been building towards this, buying in young players right through the spine of our side... Agger, Skrtle and Masch - must rank amongst the best January buys in history Torres and Babel - have had one full season under their belts we've also been buying up half of Europe's youth talent so that in 2-3 years we should be promoting ready made replacements into the team... but now we've gone and broken the mould. We've bought real premiership experience at prices we will never recoup. the only way these two players can pay for themselves is to add their experience and talent to a title challenge this year and to a premiership within the next 1-3 (i.e. I believe it is possible this year) Keane and Barry represent a stage in our development that knows we need to push forward now, and understands that the talent is there in reserve waiting to come through to replace these players when they hit 31-32...if say Plessis and Ngog eventually replace Barry and Keane then the whole exercise will have cost £40 mil and we'll probably have those 2 players worth that by then anyway... with the spine of our side being what it is there is no reason why we should not challenge...look down the centre of our team... Reina Carra Agger Skrtl Hyypia Masch Alonso/Barry (maybe both) Gerrard Torres Keane then add in Babel, Kuyt, Aurelio, Dossena, Arbeloa, Degen (perhaps), Lucas, Benayoun (hopefully not sold) and consider the likes of Plessis, Ngog, Darby, Insua etc and there is no doubt that we should be challenging. That spine above is a team of real quality, real experience, and real mental toughness - everyone there looks like a leader. everyone in that spine looks like a player who believes they should be on that pitch, and who the other players believe should be there beside them. Remember a team when it appeared that Stevie was simply frustrated by those around him - Reina, Agger, Masch, Barry, Torres, Keane - can't say that anymore. It simply looks like a team that should look at itself in the dressing room and believe! I know the mancs and chelski have the experience and many quality players of their own... but the signings of Barry and Keane mark a transition for me and I believe for Rafa also. I believe this year he believes we have a team to really press for the title and I would be bitterly disappointed if the players at our disposal aren't capable of delivering one. As a brief aside I do worry about a firesale if Barry comes. Given that Finnan I really hope we don't plum for raising the cash by selling Benayoun, Arbeloa and Pennant (ok, I don't really care if he goes). Quite simply I believe our spine is really strong but we do need the depth to compete over the whole season. Losing 4 players who can play in different positions to gain one player who I believe will do very well for us may be too high a price to pay over the whole season. Its why the straight trade between Alonso and Barry makes sense (though I do want Xabi to stay)... anyway - that was something of a digression but thought I would mention it as it is the possible lack of strength in depth that would concern me once we get beyond the spine of the side... really expectant we will challenge - we may not win it but we should be challenging. This to my mind is why we're paying the sort of money we will be for the players we're signing...to challenge NOW... Chewie

even now I get nervous just thinking about that save - somehow I keep expecting it to go in!!!! once it was saved tho that was it - you just knew it was gonna happen for us!!! funny how even thinking about it gets you all fired up again and with Keane signing all the despondency goes and once again we stand on the threshold of a new season expectant!!! in fact - every time I think we shouldn't get too carried away I remind myself of this Reina - always winning that gloves award for clean sheets Agger - back to form and fitness Skrtle - 6 months under jis belt and looks immense Carra - gonna have to get back to top form - great for us Masch - second full season Gerrard - nuff said Babel - second season and prospects look good Torres - nuff said Keane - really think signing marks change in Rafa's attitude. This is not a signing for the future, this is the experienced ready made premiership player to make a difference now when I look at the spine of that side and then consider we also have Alonso/Barry (take yer pick), Lucas in his second year, Kuyt with the intelligence to play Rafa's system, Dossena to bolster the full back positions etc I just think - we can actually flaming well do this!!!! all that inspired by the sheer thought of Istanbul!!! Wow I love that night... Chewie

I know there's a thread about the Takeover and there's one about the transfers and there's onbe about United taking over from us in the not too distant future....but taking all these together what can we possibly achieve if nothing changes at the helm of our club? What if scum buy Alves and Lahm and Chelsea do their usual round of shopping in the 15-20 million bracket... what if we're left to compete for scraps and pick up bargain buys that may or may not come good whilst Spurs go in for Eto (ok...so I know its clutching at straws to drag the 'potential' of Spurs into the argument...but under new management...who knows!) We seem to be so close and yet in our current set-up with warring owners, stadium undevelopment etc etc etc what can we possibly hope for? If things don't change I reckon a scrap for 4th is the most we can shoot for next season... whst sticks in the throat is just how good the spine is of our side right now and it could really do something...but not under the current uncertainty Feeling depressed...anyone think we can fare any better? Chewie

maybe Sammy will always be a great coach and bad manager....I know he's at Leeds but Gary Mac is someone I'd like to see come along board the coaching set up... Chewie Oh - thanks Alex btw and all the best in Japan!

bit depressing ain't it...again... roll on August eh... Chewie

in the midst of all this farce the upshot is that Parry is safer than ever!!! Despite the legions of 'Sack Parry' posts that have appeared on here and elsewhere - despite the constant whinging about his lack of commercial nous, his inability to close a transfer deal, his amateurish behaviour with Gerrard...he's now as safe as houses...Parry has now become not just the CEO but the representative of where power lies...for as long as he's in situ Hicks does not hold the keys either literally or psychologically! Indeed, even if Gillette sells out to DIC it is Parry along with Moores who gives them all the voting rights they need to squeeze the heck out of Hicks...so even the DIC who are probably seething at how they were dealt with months ago cannot get rid of the guy they distrust!!! now, I am sure there are people more informed than I on the subject of Rick Parry and his success or otherwise as a CEO but the core point remains - day to day decisions that may not be in the best interests of our club are now being dragged into this power struggle...I know that is and has been blindingly obvious but when keeping a CEO derided by many becomes crucial to the ongoing stability of the club we are in real trouble... in the past I have tried to be as fair as possible towards Hicks and even after todays revelations about who arranged what in terms of meeting Klinsmann etc I remain fairly ambivalent about determing 100% where all the blame lies in this - truth is that no matter who owns us I see us being highly leveraged with debt in years to come...but teh actual power struggle itself is destroying this club. The point in this is that I can't see the point....Hicks has pushed Parry and Gilette into being completely entrenched against him. He has demanded a major resignation that he has no power to enforce and so the public demand leaves him looking redundant... he has stated his desire to purchase from a partner who says he has no intention whatsoever of selling to him... he has made the club look more unstable rather than stable to future lenders... he has caused a power impasse that could mean decisions on the stadium etc never come to fruition robbing himself and his construction pals in the US without a project... in all of this he now looks like a guy without power, ownership, financial credibility or future financial worth given how the profile and price of the club will decline should the impasse continue... and as much as we who have not developed multi-million pound business empires would like to caricature him as being a clumsy big Texan oaf who hasn't got a clue I find this utterly niave and betraying our own hopes and ignorance rather than insight and knowledge... so the question I ask myself is this: what is he genuinely playing at? what is the endgame here? he isn't going to force DIC to give him another £100m... so what is he up to? I for one have no idea!!! Chewie