kop205

Nice one. One-Four were back tracking a bit and saying they weren't sure, just popped into my local and they don't know but landlady will phone me if they find out. Not sure they'll get ART 5 or whether they just get ART 1 but will give it a go. Cheers mate.

How is the Toffee Lady these days? And as long as Kenwright is your chairman, you don't really have much scope to comment on people at other clubs being an embarrassment.

And he's in OSM today saying that he 'never' wnats to leave Chelsea - although apparently the interview was done before the semi (and not like he'd say anything else anyway, really). So plenty there to satisfy both sides in this! But of course it will never happen.

The One-Four in town claim they have our game on - though they did seem to think that it kicked off at 3.30 and it wouldnlt be the first time they've been wrong about the matches they've got. We do seem to have been on that Arabic channel a lot lately - West Ham and Villa games to name just two. No idea if they have a website to check though. If it is the Arabic channel, my local gets that too so it would save me going into town - problem is you never seem to know until just before kick off!

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Not sure. Heard someone in the queue the other day saying there will only be 500 tickets left over (although don't know where he got that from). Guess there would be at least 10,000 applications? So not good, in other words.

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Bizarre comment. Even more bizarre comment. Commenting on the quality of the kit is perfectly valid - I'm sure you'd have something to say if we announced that we were playing in blue, for example. Awful shirt, by the way.

What I was thinking. In fairness, I don't see what else they could reasonably be expected to do than send them recorded delivery. And on a side note, does anyone know when the reuslts of the ballot will be made known? (And yes, I know chances of a ticket via it are ridiculously slim)

Saw Pellegrino at Speke airport the morning of the CL Final - obviously he didnlt fly out with the squad. Asked him if he'd enjoyed his time at Liverpool and he said 'no'! Don't know if something was lost in translation, he was taking the piss, or simply referring to his form though!

Babb and to a lesser extent Stewart. Most of the others mentioned in this thread had question marks over them anyway for me e.g. had never been impressed Cisse at Auxerre or for France, thought people went OTT about Diouf in the World Cup, with the likes of Litmanen and Morientes I always worried about why their clubs were letting them go if they were as good as everyone was claiming. And Nigel Clough was never a player. Neat, tidy, but far too slow and just not good enough to become the lynchpin of our side in the way that he was bought to be.

Don't see how anyone could lower than 6. Don't see how anyone could go higher than 7. I got slated a few weeks back when I started a thread questioning Bascombe's assessment of Crouch's first season for us as being 'outstanding', but I still recognise that we would miss him if he left as he does offer us different 'possibilities'. I defy anyone to say that he hasn't struggled at times - the long, long spells without scoring canlt be ignored, despite the other thngs he offers (and be honest, how many people really expect him to score? That is a concern for me still.) On the other hand, I don't think anyone can say he has been 'poor overall'. It doesnlt take a tactical genius or master student of the game to see that at times his ability to hold the ball up has been crucial to us. I want more from him, but he's done ok so far.

People leaving early has always happened and always will happen. Can't say I understand it but it certainly doesn't surprise me to see it happening, regardless of the circumstances. Of course, that doesn't mean that people aren't entitled to complain about it. I think it is from an interview with Rafa when he was being asked about those Laureaus (sp?) sports awards that we had been nominated for.

My point exactly and I'm sure the Manc on the train feels the same way. Which is why getting t****** might be more 'just', given that he had waited until he thought he was safe to play the hard man. But like I said, it is still in a sense the lesser of two evils for me as at least only the 'guilty' are punished.

Not 'worse' as such, just a less 'appropriate' form of retribution and less likely to make me laugh. Seeing a Manc who threw s*** on Liverpool fans get t****** for his troubles would be more likely to make me laugh than s*** being thrown on Mancs in general and hitting a kid or something, for example. I don't actually agree with either really, but find the former the lesser of two evils. Like I said, I'm aware of the contradiction. I suppose all I can say by way of explanation is that t***ting him would be an attack on him and him alone, on the basis of his behaviour. No 'collateral damage' so to speak. Shouting 'Munich', randomly throwing s*** etc are cheap shots that have ALL Mancs down as being 'fair game' and actually insult and are disrespectful towards people who have f*** all to do with that one t*** on the train, regardless of whether or not they were there to hear it. That is why it wouldn't seem more appropriate. Just my personal opinion of course, and not really that relevant to the original debate, but there you go. And I did only mean a quick smack, not a true kicking!

And deeply ironic that there are people who go week in, week out who are being lumped in with the 'holier than thous' simply on the basis of criticising what went on. I think I've earned my right to pass judgement on the basis of games attended over the years, and still being attended - home and away. I too know it has always gone on but that hasn't made me apathetic in any way. I really don't think, when all is said and done, that our positions are that different though I probably wouldn't have laughed at people shouting 'Munich' (in fact in a strange way I think I would have been more likely to laugh had someone simply gotten off the train, t****** him, and then got back on - and yes I'm aware of the contradiction as I would still have known it wasn't right). Seems that we both agree (roughly) on where lines should be drawn but differ over how to respond when they are crossed. I can live with that.

Because in your initial post you were linking it to/identifying it with people who object to trashing OT, singing Munich songs etc. I don't think that the one implies or follows from the other. You've said this since your intial post, so fair enough. As I've said all along, people tend to overcomplicate what is a fairly straightforward issue.

I don't know anyone who gets upset by that. It is perfectly possible to hate them with a passion but still disagree with 'Munich 58' and 'Shipman is our King' being scrawled on the walls of their ground, so to immediately wade in with the 'nouveau supporter' line is irrelevant. I'd agree that there is an element of 'nouveau support' that has changed the game, and not for the better. I disagree that one of their hallmarks is that they ncessarilly object to stuff like this.

Precisely what you weren't saying in your previous post, where you spoke about 'fighting fire with fire being the only language those c**** understand'. Anything that starts 'Neither side is right, but...' is always going to at least partially condone what happens on the basis of drawing attention to what the 'other side' do. It just isn't relevant as any sort of 'justification'. Anyone who sings Munich songs loses any right to take offence at people making Hillsborough banners and vice-versa. They are ALL behaving like c****. Like I said, it really isn't difficult and I don't see any grey areas or mitigating factors. If that makes me a 'nouveau supporter' (I assume that the term is being used to refer to those who speak out against stuff like this) then fine, despite the fact that I've gone to the game for years and am more than aware of and in no way 'shocked' by what goes on. We had a thread the other day where I argued that people who sing Munich songs, smash up OT etc can still in many sense be calssed as real fans. Well, I think it is possible to object to that sort of thing too without automatically becoming a 'nouveau supporter' from whom the game needs to be wrestled back. This type of s*** always has and always will go on, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I've no wish to skip hand-in-hand up Matt Busby Way with the Salford Reds, wishing each other good luck. I'm happy for there to be an intense rivalry. Maybe I draw the line earlier than some others, but spare me the patronising 'nouveau supporter' stuff.

f***ing b******s. Don't you think the Mancs tell themselves exactly the same thing? 'Only thing those scouse c**** will understand'. It is playground stuff - 'They started it...' If something isn't right, you don't do it. End of. If you think that it IS right to sing about Munich, Shipman etc because of what they sing about Shields/Hillsborough etc then say that and we can have that debate. If you don't think it is right, then don't semi-condone it by pointing out the wrongs that they do. People who sing about Hillsborough are behaving like w*****s, irrespective of provocation. Likewise people who sing about Munich. Why complicate something that is so simple and so self-evident?

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Kewell? Big game? Injury? Unprecedented. Serioulsy though, shame if he isn't available - not that I'd back him to tear them to pieces, just that he does give us better shape.

What does that mean? He was 'promised' 90 minutes and was pissed off that he didn't get it? Sorry, but that is b******s. He was having a poor game and whilst I don't think his reaction was a massive deal and I'm not going to slate the kid for it, he did make himself look a bit of a t**. Agree with pretty much all of that.

Is it really that ridiculous though? Maybe the wording isn't quite right, as someone who travels the country to watch Liverpool clearly IS, at least in some sense, a 'real fan' - regardless of whatever else they get up to at the game. I think the point the lad was trying to make though is that actions like ripping up seats or other acts of vandalism or hooliganism do nothing to encourage the team, which is what being a 'supporter' is supposedly about. If such things are done by people who go week in, week out, their regular attendance at games shouldn't make them immune from criticism. Accusing of them not being 'real fans' is possibly the wrong way of wording it. The little group of racist t***s who have started attracting attention to themselves at some away games are still 'real fans' in one sense, but I for one have no problem in saying that I find their behaviour objectionable and pathetic in every way, not least given that their attentions should be focussed on supporting the team. I feel the same about anyone who feels a need to rip up seats at OT on Saturday. I live in the real world, I know and have seen what goes on and I know what is likely to go on on Saturday. I know that for some people it is and always has been an extension of their concept of what it means to be a 'fan'. Personally I don't see any need for or use in such behaviour given that it does nothing whatsoever to help the team. I'm not going to say that those people aren't 'real' fans, just that their concept of what being a fan means/requires is different to mine. I thinkn that is what the original post was saying and that is something that most of us can probably agree with, even if we aren't totally in agreement with the way in which it was worded.

Do you not think the 'mancie w-ankies' would have every right to get upset if this happened? Wouldn't we have every right to get uspset if they turned up at Anfield with bus marked with '89' or '96' or something like that? The whole story (banner, bus, the works) is small time beyond belief. It would be bad enough if we we're even playing United but this game has f*** all to do with them and anyone who would waste their inventing/being amused by s*** like this is a f***ing d****ead to an extent that almost beggars belief.